Part of some Italian church names / THU 1-18-24 / Old-fashioned news source / Cheery refrains from the Seven Dwarfs / Doomed to fail, for short / Cocktails with brandy and crème de menthe / Really cool in dated slang / Early Quechua speaker / Indigenous race in the Avatar movies

Thursday, January 18, 2024

Constructor: Jon Michnovicz and Carl Michnovicz

Relative difficulty: Medium


THEME: EI ... IE? ... oh — a rebus puzzle where eight squares read "IE" in one direction and "EI" in the other:

Theme answers:
  • VIVIEN LEIGH (THE INDIES / CRIER) (17A: Actress who portrayed Scarlett O'Hara and Blanche DuBois / 4D: What Columbus thought he'd reached in 1492 / 6D: Old-fashioned news source)
  • HEISMAN TROPHIES (THE INDIES / EIDER) (24A: Awards that only one college athlete has ever won twice / 4D: What Columbus thought he'd reached in 1492 / 27D: Source of down)
  • HIGH-PROTEIN DIET (STOOLIE / HEIGH-HOS) (40A: Atkins, for one / 23D: Ratfink / 39D: Cheery refrains from the Seven Dwarfs)
  • ONE-EIGHTIES (NOSIEST / LEICA) (54A: Complete reversals / 42D: Most prying / 51D: High-end camera brand)
Word of the Day: Archie Griffin (24A: Awards that only one college athlete has ever won twice = HEISMAN TROPHIES) —

Archie Mason Griffin (born August 21, 1954) is an American former football running back who played for seven seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals of the National Football League (NFL). He played college football for the Ohio State Buckeyes. The only two-time Heisman Trophy winner, he is considered one of the greatest college football players of all time. Griffin won four Big Ten Conference titles with the Buckeyes and was the first player ever to start in four Rose Bowls. He also played professionally for the Jacksonville Bulls of the United States Football League (USFL).
• • •

[22ADoomed to fail, for short]
Gonna have to make this fairly short: my first day of school got snowed out on Tuesday so today is technically Day 1, only sadly it's also Day 2, and I haven't been in a classroom in six weeks, so I need to make sure I have a little time this morning to get my head straight (i.e. at least a full hour to drink a pot of coffee and stare into space before I hit that 8:30am class). How I feel about today's puzzle is pretty much a version of how I felt about yesterday's puzzle. Two key resemblances: 1. there's a gimmick but I don't know what the point is, and 2. the fill is not OK. Squares go "IE" one way and "EI" the other ... and the four long themers themselves have both "IE" and "EI" in them. But once again I was waiting for the revealer, the thing that would make it make sense, and it never came. We're just flipping "EI" and "IE" around willy-nilly, just for kicks. There's no concept at play. There's no hook, no conceptual exclamation point. There's just eight (ieght?) squares that do what they do. And then there's MOOER (and then there's MOOER!). And LMN. And SANT. And NOTAT. Yesterday, NODAT, today, NOTAT. See? More similarities. Apparently there IS NO end to the reign of EDO, which makes its second 2024 appearance today (more than all the appearances it made from 2021 through 2023). And there are more improbable plurals. Yesterday, LEGATOS; today, both TADAS (lol, plural?) and HEIGH-HOS (who can forget the memorable tune, "HEIGH-HOS, HEIGH-HOS, it's off to work we goes!"?). I guess this puzzle did teach me at least one thing, which is: that's how you spell "HEIGH-HO(S)" —I'd've spelled it like the (bygone?) cracker:


I can't say this wasn't an interesting exercise, thematically. There's definitely something going on. For me, the problem is that it's merely structural / architectural. Nothing meaningful is being demonstrated. There's no wordplay to bring the concept to life. You could be switching any two letters around. I liked hunting the IEEI squares, because I just like figuring things out, but I'm left with a shrug. But it's worse than that, because I winced at the grid so many times along the way. "IT'S A HELP"? Just say "it helps" like a normal person, please!


Clue Round-up:
  • 1A: Part of some Italian church names (SANT) — I can't say I've never seen this before (as clued). Apparently I've seen it once before, in 2012. But it sure felt like I'd never seen it. When I search [Italian sant] it shows me results for [Italian santa]. The query just doesn't compute. Maybe there's some elision happening in "Italian church names." I don't know. All I know is, Gus van SANT is a reasonably prominent motion picture director. 
  • 56A: Really cool, in dated slang (ACES) — dated? How dare you! I use ACES all the time, so it must be extremely now and hip. All the TEENs are saying it! (he sobbed sadly to himself).
  • 41D: Big-game hunting targets in the classic short story "The Most Dangerous Game" (HUMANS) — it's a story! I know it as a classic movie, a pre-coded horror film from 1932, starring the dreamy Joel McCrea. Tons of fun.
  • 25D: Steve Martin, Chevy Chase and Martin Short, in a 1986 comedy (AMIGOS) — lol the movie is called "The Three AMIGOS," if you asked anyone that clue they would say "Oh, I know, the answer is THREE AMIGOS!" and they would be right, this answer is pretty ridiculous without the "three."
  • 34D: Hot shot? (ESPRESSO) — now this, I liked. Went from "What??" (even with first couple letters in place) to "Aha!" Very good misdirection.
  • 11D: What a provocateur aims to do (STIR THE POT) — I liked this too. Best entry in the grid. Also, it offers a good chance to illustrate an issue I talk about with longer phrases all the time (e.g. EAT A SANDWICH): STIR A POT would be bad—you might say it (in some context, at some time), but it's not a phrase that can stand alone. Whereas, STIR THE POT, mwah, perfect. It's an idiomatic phrase. An entity unto itself. Complete standaloneability!
  • 18D: World Vision and others, for short (NGOS) — I had many wrong STABs here, including APPS and RPGS (role-playing games?). I can't say this answer is improved by being paired in a crossreference with ORG (45A: The "O" of 18-Down). This is like putting bright-yellow hi-liter on two of the weakest answers in your grid. Why?
Here's hoping none of you online solvers had trouble today, and that your EIs and IEs were accepted by the app, no problem. See you tomorrow.

Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld 

P.S. I almost forgot: my favorite wrong answer of the new year. This is what happens when you have a few letters in place and then read the clue way, way too fast:


[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]

103 comments:

Conrad 5:30 AM  


Figured out the gimmick in the NW, which made the rest of the puzzle comparatively easy (for a Thursday rebus), except for confusing Vivien with Janet Leigh.

tenSe before ANTSY at 16A
EStRogen (thinking menopause) before ESPRESSO for the "Hot shot" at 34D
Took a couple of treis to get the right spelling for Katey SAGAL (38A)

Bob Mills 6:15 AM  

I got the IE/EI gimmick quickly, and finished the puzzle, but never heard any music because I couldn't decide what letter to put into each of the special squares. Can anyone suggest how I should outsmart my own computer in the future?

I normally dislike Thursday puzzles, but this one was very well constructed, I thought.

Anonymous 6:19 AM  

Really wanted OREO for black and white danger

Lank 6:22 AM  

Got through it ok (4 seconds faster than my avg - lol) thanks to the high frequency of the ie/eis. Was hoping for an old Mcdonald (id est, "eieio") revealer but will settle for 180s / uies...

king_yeti 6:23 AM  

wasn’t sure how to fill in the IE v EI in the app. Rebus-ed all as IE and it accepted them.

Elision 6:24 AM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
JCal 6:29 AM  

Don't forget the original movie also starred Fay Wray and the wonderful (and evil!) Leslie Banks. The story is from the 1920's written by Richard Connell, a noted short-story writer of the time. I first came across the story as a boy in what I remember was a great Modern Library anthology of greet mystery and thriller stores. If you watch the movie carefully - it was a B Movie - you'll notice some reused sets from King Kong. Adds to the fun.

Anonymous 6:49 AM  

It worked when I did EI in all the squares

Anonymous 6:50 AM  

Can’t get app to accept any rebus combinations

Jolan.False 6:56 AM  

Oh! The answer is Vivica Fox! I kept trying to make Vivek Ramaswamy fit. 🤦‍♂️

kitshef 7:10 AM  

Ack! I tend to get SeWN/SOWN backwards a lot, and should know to always check the cross. In this case, I did not know the cross but would have gone with EDO as at least I know that's a city in Japan.

Is 180s supposed to be a revealer? We seem to be having a lot of no revealer/poor revealer puzzles lately.

HANG GLIDErS normally operate from mountain tops, not shores. Paragliders are at the shore.

When colloquial phrases don’t land, they can be pretty bad. See IT’S A HELP.

I am from the generation that most of us have NO TAT.

kitshef 7:12 AM  

According to Gameplay, any of the following should be accepted:
IE/EI
EI/IE
IE
EI
I
E
EIIE
IEEI

Anonymous 7:36 AM  

“It works eider way”
Just made my day.

SouthsideJohnny 7:38 AM  

That was painful - especially keeping track and trying to figure out all of those IEEI sequences. After the first one, I felt like I was wandering around a yard filled with dog poop and trying not to step in any. Then, as Rex pointed out so pointedly, there’s no revealer - there’s no (discernible to me at least) point to this whole nonsense. The whole grid made me feel like I wanted to take a shower.

Anonymous 7:41 AM  

Me too!

DeeJay 7:43 AM  

I'm gonna support your contention that the oneeighties entry is the revealer.

beverly c 7:54 AM  

I though ONE EIGHTIES was the revealer…

Andy Freude 7:56 AM  

Now, that’s a version of Streetcar I’d like to see.
After fretting over whether to fill the rebus squares with EI or IE, I accidentally typed an I in my very last square and got the happy music. Which means I could have just done that all the way through, I suppose.
Just the sort of thing that makes this rebus hater hate rebuses. A waste of time (unlike regular crossword puzzles, which are educational and character building—at least, that’s what I keep telling Mrs. Freude).

Peter P 7:58 AM  

I think in general, just the first letter of a rebus will work for the NY Times app. It at least seems to work whenever there's one of these "A/B" type of answers, but I think it works on just plain one-answer rebuses as well.

I gave up on this one not even halfway through. Just wasn't clicking for me, and if a puzzle isn't giving me joy, I move on.

Doris 7:59 AM  

SANT needs an apostrophe, e.g., SANT’AGATA. Otherwise, it’s SANTA MARIA or SANTO STEFANO. SANT’ is used if the saint’s name begins with a vowel. Capisce? (Or, as Xwords sometimes have ii, CAPEESH?).

Lewis 7:59 AM  

Lots to like:
• The fauna aura: PARROT, ORCA, BOAS, MOOER, HORN, HUMANS.
• That this puzzle was made by father and son.
• Freshness from seven NYT debut answers, including the very lovely STIR THE POT.
• That EIDER goes down in the grid.
• [“The food of love,” per Shakespeare] juxtaposed with last night’s Jeopardy category, “If food be the love of music”.
• BASSO being low.
• The rare and wonderful in-puzzle palindrome (SADAT and TADAS).

Lots of happy-pops, that is, Jon and Carl, and so I’m very grateful for your puzzle and all the work you put into it – those many iterations you went through before this final version (mentioned in your notes). Congratulations on your NYT debut, and thank you!

andrew 8:03 AM  

ANOTHER DAY WITHOUT A WOMAN! I’m talking about my personal life now but I guess that also applies to Day 18 of Year MM24 and only 1.5 apparent female (she/her) constructors. How can EDITORS be so Shortz-sighted when getting in the last words?

Ok, UGH, yes, I’m here to STIRTHEPOT and swat yesterday’s attempts at ad hominem STINGERS DOA.

Puzzle played easy and app was lenient in its acceptance of EIther EI/IE vowel movements. “Id est” for the best to be so accommodating!

Since I allegedly have a bumper sticker mentality how about MORE XX IN OUR XWORDS? Will that give me some Prog Cred?

Matbe offset my other stickers, I BRAKE FOR BOOBIES and I HONK FOR HOOTERS? Hee haw!

CF 8:15 AM  

I think ONE EIGHTIES is the revealer, as in the EI/IE pairs have to do a complete reversal to make it work in both words (For the rebus I just put them the way they would be correct in the acrosses and it accepted that)

Anonymous 8:21 AM  

@beverly c. I agree that one eighties is the revealer, since the IE and EI actually do a 180, but it's pretty weak

mmorgan 8:29 AM  

Rex was on a roll today. In a good way.

I thought just putting one IE in the rebus squares would be enough, but Across Lite didn't like it and wanted IEEI in some and EIIE in others. Oh well.

In England, it's pronounced HEY Ho, which makes sense given the spelling. Listen to Noel Coward's "If Love Were All."

Anonymous 8:35 AM  

I’m a terrible speller so I ended up with putting EI in some squares and IE in others, even though in some cases I was pretty sure it wasn’t right for the cross, and got the music.

Anonymous 8:37 AM  

You are so right about hang glider vs paraglider!

Jeff 8:40 AM  

Isn’t BACON really the “food of love”?

Anonymous 8:47 AM  

Been doing NYT puzzles everyday for a few years...this week's puzzles have been so bad that I'm seriously considering stopping...ei/ie=one eighty I guess...lame...and just not enjoyable. Also another puzzle by dudes. Ugh!

EasyEd 8:49 AM  

It seems the real puzzle to this puzzle was to get the revealer, to my mind not so much weak but more like subtle. Congrats to all who picked up on it. And thanks to @Lewis for the word-play.

Dan A 8:50 AM  

Clue on MATADORS would be better as ‘Charge dodgers’ rather than ‘Charger dodgers’ to get fuller reverberation from the auto reference ‘Dodge Chargers’

DrBB 8:54 AM  

Might could be they finally solved one of the most annoying things about the most annoying puzzle interface on the web: the idiot rebus problem where you have to cram two distinct answers into the box and you spend twice as much time trying to figure out what format they want you to use as you did solving the puzzle in the first place while the timer ticks away (I do the desktop version on the NYT page). So this time I spent zero time caring which order I entered "IE" in, in order to just get the grid filled, and lo, mirabile dictu, it gave me the win AND filled them all in for me with a slash mark (IE/EI). So that's progress, hope they keep it up.

Karl Grouch 8:56 AM  

What @RP said,
ie, not a very EI puzzle

Chris Menzel 9:04 AM  

Double- and triple-checked for a revealer. Most WTF puzzle ever…

pabloinnh 9:05 AM  

More app problems. Further proof that the pencil is the way to go.

Started with SADAT for some reason which gave me SNITCH going down which meant HEISMANTROPHIES couldn't be right even though I knew it was. Got that straightened out with EIDER, saw the trick and the rest was fairly smooth sailing.

Some trouble with STIRTHEPOT as I had ST_RT and wanted to START something. Also, I never remember NAVI, didn't really know Ms. SAGAL, and the spelling of HEIGHHO? And plural. Eek.

And you can add AGLEAM to AROAR and ATILT and all those other A-words to which I say yuck.

Nice enough Thursday, JM and CM. Kept thinking today is Wednesday for some reason and thought I Just Might have to Call MY lawyer but no harm done. Your puzz was ACES with me and thanks for all the fun.

Liveprof 9:05 AM  

It's The Case of the Hidden Revealer. The puzzle wants us to find the revealer(s). One of them is ONE EIGHTIES, of course. Another might be MOOER, which brings to mind EI-EI-O. (Or, more likely, not.) Too bad they didn't work ID EST into the grid.

thfenn 9:09 AM  

More with Rex on this one, not really buying the ONEEIGHTIES idea. Maybe, but really the IE/EI things are doing nineties. But I still enjoyed teasing them out. Didn't quite catch on until it had to be TROPHIES AND EIDERS, and got really stuck staring at HIGHHO before DIET clicked.
And enjoyed the fill, but anything with birding and fishing references will do that. Love eiders. You pretty much have to be in Maine or north to see this, but they gather huge flocks of ducklings protected by the adult females in the spring. Quite a sight.

Son Volt 9:10 AM  

VIVIEN and HEISMAN gave the me trick. The app accepted a combination of IE and EI - I just put in the horizontal rebus and it was fine.

Had the exact same take on ACES as the big guy - I use it all the time. Not the same feeling for AMIGOS - the clue lists the three. Liked STIR THE POT and HANG GLIDERS.

Pleasant Thursday morning solve.

ACES back to back

RooMonster 9:10 AM  

Hey All !
Got the EI/IE Rebus gimmick, but flip-flopped the order of them about 7 times on the first Themer I figured out. Finally decided to have them read correctly in the Acrosses, as in how the word is supposed to be spelled, and let the Downs be jibberish-ish. Then, lo and behold, upon completion, the App changed all the squares to either EI/IE or IE/EI. Wacky EDITORS. Har.

Fun time figuring out why some answers didn't want to work. Took the ole brain a minute to remember it was Thursday, and finally grokked it might be a Rebus (sorry @Anoa Bob!)

That SE corner has Three of those EIEIos crammed in. (Well, four, really.) Yow. The NW corner was surprisingly difficult. Finished up there, and man, it took a minute. Also three Rebi crammed in there.

THE INDIES was odd. Sure, I'm sure Columbus was looking for "THE INDIES", but wasn't it Easy? And how (or when) did he find out he was in the wrong place? It's not like they had GPS. Also, how did word get back that he hit land? Carrier pigeon? Har.

If you haven't seen Three AMIGOS, it's a funny movie. Add it to your "Watch this movie" list. 😁

No F's (SAD AT that)
RooMonster
DarrinV

Anonymous 9:11 AM  

52 down-isn’t is PSAT for sophomores and SATs for juniors?

andrew 9:25 AM  

URGENT MEMO TO WILL SHORTZ:

Talkin' 'bout life and what it means to you
It don't mean nothin' if it don't run through
I got one thing to say, you know it's true
You got to find some time to get this thing together, 'cause
We gotta get you a woman…

Todd RUNDGREN shootz on Shortz: whysoMale? Submissions or Ms.Ogyny? (And why should Women have to offer submissions? Sexist!)

Cart 9:28 AM  

I know for those of us who solve a lot of crosswords, figuring out that symmetrical answers contain similar letters that should be entered as rebus etc etc is pretty easy -- but when you have a puzzle like this, with a lot of rebus squares and no indication anywhere of a theme or revealer or anything at all, you're really ruining the experience for people newer to solving crosswords. Sitting around thinking you know the answers but being completely unable to fit them in the grid sucks, and without something to point out that certain answers or squares are part of the theme, someone who has only solved a few puzzles is going to really hate this.

david kulko 9:29 AM  

As Doris noted, Sant' comes before a saint whose name begins with a vowel. And, because it requires an apostrophe (Rex is correct that it is an elision), it is invalid as an answer.

Smith 9:40 AM  

Super easy, ridiculous, actually. Since I knew VIVIEN LEIGH was correct *and* since THE INDIES also had to be correct it only made sense that it was an IE rebus. And that made the rest of the puzzle way too easy. If I, knowing zip about sports, can get HEISMANTROPHIES off the S in NGOS, well, that's pretty much the epitome of cinchyness. No trickiness once you get the rebus, no theme.... ?
And! I have been to World Vision's HQ in Kenya, and I knew a man who had been a WV child and he was amazing. So that was nice (even though WV is actually far too conservative for me and mine).
[The number of words Otto has corrected incorrectly in this post is staggering. Many are common errors made by uneducated people, so I guess that's what happens when you train AI on a giant corpus, full of errors - since the errors are more common the AI decides they're correct.]

Anonymous 9:45 AM  

I read “The Most Dangerous Game” in high school, and given that it was in the text book chapter on types of literary conflict, my guess is that a lot of high schools did.

Anonymous 9:51 AM  

I entered IE in some and EI in some and it worked. I was expecting to have to go back and change them. The accepted format seems to be unique to each puzzle.

AggyMac 9:51 AM  

EI?
EI??!?
Oh.

Anonymous 9:51 AM  

Neither can I!

Anonymous 9:52 AM  

Me three!

Anonymous 9:53 AM  

Mine accepted the ei/ie of the across - I only entered 2 letters not 4

Melinda 9:53 AM  

I wanted I before e except after c. Thought that would be clever, but not to be….

Perry 9:57 AM  

20A - Cocktails with brandy and crème de menthe.

What an utterly disgusting sounding concoction. I have never heard of a STINGER and I never want to hear of one. UGH! Somehow VOMITINDUCING doesn't fit in the grid.

Anonymous 10:04 AM  

@doris 7:59 yes, Sant' is used before a name that starts with a vowel, masculine or feminine. But your Example Santo Stefano- its only Santo If it's Masculine name and starts with a Z or an S followed by a consonant, as in your Example ST for Stefano, S plus consonant. If it's Masculine and doesn't start with the "Impure S" then it's just SAN like San Giovanni but Santo Stefano. Saints with female names are Santa like Santa Maria. But if impure S in female name it is still Santa. Like Santa Zaccaria .

Anonymous 10:05 AM  

Part of gimmick, apparently, is that ie/ei entries are exceptions to "i before e except after c." Protein. Heigh-ho. Leigh. Leica.

Anonymous 10:05 AM  

Ei ei ei Loooocie! I was a TA at Suny Binghamton many moons ago, I would pray not to be assigned the 8:30 class.

egsforbreakfast 10:15 AM  

The amount of edible grass on an acre of pasture doubles every two years - - MOOER's Law.

I sure wanted "Black and white danger" to be OReo. I mean, put a two pound bag of those down next to me and we're talking D-A-N-G-E-R!!! ORCAs, YEAHNO.

The pirate swilled GROG, whilst the STOOLIE drank Stoli.

Can't say that I understand the point of rebusizing all of the IE/EI combos. No revealer revealed itself to me. Then I got to thinking about the recent run of non-women authors. And I came up with this scenario to explain this grid:

Shortz: They're all over me about not including enough non-white male constructors. We gotta get into that movement. What's it called? BEI? YEAHNO. DEI? Yeah, that's it. Real woke and all. Find me a puzzle with DEI built into it.
Intern (mumbling softly): You want a puzzle with the EI in it?
Shortz: Yeah DEI. That'll get Parker and his crew of misfits off my back.

Super easy puzzle. Kind of BLAH to me.

Anonymous 10:17 AM  

I finished this puzzle thinking the theme was “I before E, except after C” because I ended up with a whole grid of IE except in 6D, where I used EI because the word was CRIER and it started with a C. Thought it was sort of a playful thing where applying the rule makes a bunch of things wrong. I don’t know, it was very late, and I was a bit puzzled there was no I before E revealer or any kind. But it accepted it so I just assumed (until reading this write-up) that I’d been spot on 😂

CT2Napa 10:30 AM  

For 40A Atkins, I had the I from OMNI in square two, so immediately thought of the Ny Daily News headline, "Diet Doc Dead" - But it didn't fit.

akillesheel 10:59 AM  

I got the first theme at the second ei/ig in LEIGH crossed with CRIER, and I was optimistic that the theme would be a reversal of that silly "i before e except after c" rule that has more exceptions than followers. Alas, the rest of the themers didn't do this.

Whatsername 11:10 AM  

100% with RP today and after a quick skim of comments, also with @Southside Johnny (7:38). After getting the trick, I began to feel a mild irritation at having to reverse the rebus letters and found VIVIEN/THE INDIES to be particularly frustrating. My consternation only increased as I progressed and couldn’t decide whether to enter the rebus so that the crosses were right or so that the downs were right. My eraser got a workout. To be honest, I blame the obsessive-compulsive tendencies of my late summer zodiac sign, Virgo.

Jeremiad and SLIMED were new to me, and I wanted to spell the HEIGH-HOS like those crackers which I always loved. The other brands are not the same, kind of BLAH in comparison.

Nancy 11:22 AM  

I'm thinking: "What an inspired misdirection at 39D" -- and then I re-read the clue. "Three Dwarfs, not Santa, you idiot", I scolded myself as I scratched out HOHOHOS and wrote in H[EI]GHHOS.

By then I had the trick, natch, and I felt relief that now I could get the word DIET into the Atkins answer. I knew DIET had to be in there, but I couldn't for the life of me remember which DIET fad Atkins was promoting. Fat? Carbs? Oh, right, PROT[EI]N.

How inspired it is to get two EI or IEs into each theme answer! I wonder if there's a computer program that can help a constructor out with that? But it doesn't matter if there is: we solvers are the beneficiar[IE]s of that A.I. assistance. I loved this puzzle and was sorry when it was over.

(BTW, let's call this week TWONR week. "The Week Of No Revealer".)

Masked and Anonymous 11:23 AM  

OK, sooo … new rule: Solvers have to make up their own puztheme revealers, from now on.
M&A's revealer: I before E, except every other time.

staff weeject pick: ANG. African country abbreve meat.

Played sorta like a themeless puz, with IE typos. Like @Conrad, had a JANETLEIGH moment. Lost a few precious nanoseconds, before fully grokkin the puztheme iedea.

fave things: SLIMED. ESPRESSO & its clue.

Thanx for gangin up on us, Michnovicz dudes. And congratz on yer debuts.

Masked & Anonymo4Us


**gruntz**

jfpon 11:24 AM  

Don't get the many complaints re lack of a revealer, with ONE EIGHTIES sitting exactly where most revealers plop themselves (and containing and example of itself). Not to mention it being a Thursday, which are very often themeless, or covert like this one, and the themers' near perfect symmetry.

jberg 11:26 AM  

The case for ONE-EIGHTIES is plausible, but revealer clues need to indicate that they are so, as with "and a hint to 8 squares in this puzzle." This time it was just an accident. The rebus came to me gradually. I was pretty sure about VIVIEN LEIGH and HEISMAN TROPHIES, but could only see the IE rebuses, and the resulting answer was still too long. Finally saw how THE INDIES worked, though, and the rest was a snap.

I did like the double "Take a ____" clues. Even more of them would make a kind of neat puzzle.

I had the first four letters of BASSO filled in and somehow didn't notice the blank space at the end, prompting me to wonder if that song was really sung by a fish. That was the high point for me.

Anonymous 11:37 AM  

After getting burner last time I did ei/ie

Newboy 11:49 AM  

Well, ORCAs might be clued better as Spanish sailboat dangers? Neat Thursday trick Jon & Carl👍🏼

Kinda thought the theme was revealed by TWO constructors having TWO rebus squares in every across answer. Hadn’t really thought of the ONE IE/EIGHTEI/IE before it was cited above.

Had much more fun than OFL did, but then I haven’t faced an 8am classroom in over 20 years. Pre-first day angst is a sure sign of a good teacher: new semesters are an invitation to make new mistakes in this art form that one never masters.

I forgot the poster, but thanks to yesterday’s update on @LMS about whom questions were nagging as her blog absences continued. I’m hoping that she’ll find time in future days to drop by with another grammar JEREMIAD now and then.

mathgent 11:58 AM  

@Doris (7:59). Thanks for explaining SANT.

I never met a rebus I didn't love. Plus this one had some sparkle as well as VIVIENLEIGH. Not to mention only single-digit threes. Bravo!

Anonymous 12:02 PM  

I couldn’t figure out the trick in the NW, tho I knew it was a rebus. The lovely word “eider” crossed with “trophies” revealed it. Very satisfying Thursday. Thank you Jon and Carl!

Anonymous 12:15 PM  

Aren’t 180’s when you turn around completely? I don’t see how that can be the reveal because EIIE backwards is still EIIE. Plus, apparently the order of the letters in the rebi don’t even matter. What a waste of time.

Nancy 12:17 PM  

Another hand up for someone who was looking for an "I before E except after C"-type revealer. ONE EIGHTIES doesn't do it for me.

What slowed me down most at the beginning is that I thought Columbus thought he'd landed in INDIA, not THE INDIES.

Amen to @kitshef on the non-equivalency of ITS A HELP to its clue. If someone "thanked" me that way after I'd made a contribution, however small, you'd better believe I'd never give them another nickel.

@Smith -- Who's Otto? Any relation to Siri or Alexa?

Carola 12:22 PM  

I thought it was genius, with the E/I combo needing to reverse itself in each rebus square to have the Across and Down words spelled correctly. What a feat to find these! Especially those that doubled the fun: THE INDIES. And I thought ONE EIGHTIES was a perfect reveal; I didn't think it needed a typical reveal clue: the entry is in the right spot and perfectly describes what's been going on. Totally disagree with @Rex on this one. Since I'm a big VIVIEN LEIGH fan, it was easy for me to catch on early; still, I had to puzzle over ONEEIGHTIES for a good while...making the wit of it all the more fun.

@Jeff 8:40 - My daughter teaches Shakespeare, and I can't wait to tell her about bacon as the food of love (she would agree).

@Anonymous 10:04 - Thank you for the explanation. I'm studying Italian and have gotten accustomed to "lo" replacing "il" before those s-words, but I never would have made the connection with, say, Santo Spirito.

jb129 12:39 PM  

Not being a fan of rebuses, 8 Down pretty much sums it up for me -

UGH

Anonymous 12:39 PM  

Got the gimmick pretty quickly, but expected an “Old MacDonald” chorus clue for the revealer.

okanaganer 12:48 PM  

If I don't actually put in the multiple letters, I feel like I've cheated. And I don't care about the time, so it took me a lot of fiddling with EIIE and IEEI to get the Happy Pencil but that's okay.

[Spelling Bee: Wed 0, Tues -1 missing an 8er that I often miss.]

Anonymous 12:49 PM  

So, was I the only one who got stuck trying to put another in IE/EI rebus into Katey SIEGAL and wondering what DEIRED was?

jae 1:01 PM  

Medium, but it took me a while to find a typo and figure out how to do the rebus.
I liked it a bit more than @Rex but he’s right about a lot of the fill and the weak theme.

Anonymous 1:12 PM  

I have never heard either of the words STOOLIE nor RATFINK, but this weeks seems to be driving home that they are apparently synonyms.

Anonymous 1:14 PM  

Neither can I

johnk 1:54 PM  

Nope

johnk 1:55 PM  

I before E, except

johnk 2:14 PM  

Today's RANT: EI-EI-EI-EI-EI! UGH! No MOOER DOA Thursdays! NOT AT, SAD AT TADAS. LMNORG or ORCAS, OAR A PARER of ACES beats a PARROT EDITORS.

bocamp 2:21 PM  

Thx Jon & Carl, EI EI HEIGH HO; way to go! 😊

Downs-o (success came much quicker than yd).

Didn't take long to suss out the IE/EI theme. Huge help!

Only iffy spot was SANT.

Fun 'expedition'! :)
___
Peace 🕊 🇺🇦 ~ Compassion ~ Tolerance ~ Kindness ~ Freudenfreude & a DAP to all 👊 🙏

Anonymous 2:39 PM  

@egs - 10:15
The amount of edible grass on an acre of pasture doubles every two years - - MOOER's Law.

Well... there'd be less starvation in the world if it were truly analogous - edible grass doubling every two years. Of course, Moore didn't actually say that. He said that compute power would double, not the # of transistors. Here endeth the quibble.

Anonymous 2:41 PM  

12:15 PM Anonymous said...
Aren’t 180’s when you turn around completely?

No. 360’s are when you turn around completely.

Anonymous 2:54 PM  

The correlation between rebus complexity and stupid surrounding clues is an iron law. At it, not at, ang, ngo, org, ugh.

Anoa Bob 2:59 PM  

Hi @Roo 9:10, no need to say sorry because I look forward to being a gadfly when one of these multiple letters in a single square puzzles is called a rebus puzzle. If we are trying to make a simple minded puzzle gimmick look more sophisticated by using a Latin word for it, then litteris would be the go to choice. It means "with or by way of letters" while rebus means "with or by way of things".

Even the NYTXW folks seem to be tiring of this multiple letters in a square ruse. In their Submit Your Crossword Puzzles to the New York Times, one of the guidelines under "A summary of what we look for" says "What we could use more of: Thursday and Sunday puzzles that don’t involve a rebus."

There's a face saving way to use rebus for a crossword puzzle while at the same time acknowledging that it is different from (1) its Latin meaning of "with or by way of things", (2) how other rebus puzzles, like the classic TV game show "Concentration" use it and, especially, (3) how language scholars use the Rebus Principle to show how ancient pictographic/hieroglyphic writing developed into modern abstract alphabets.

That way is to use rebus with an asterisk. In other contexts an asterisk is used to indicate that something is different or unique. In sports, for example, a statistic from the COVID era or from a strike shortened season will be given an asterisk.

So today's NYTXW is a rebus* puzzle.

Anonymous 3:19 PM  

Nah, 360 is a complete turn around. And i think it was more like either ie or ei for each across and the down was the opposite, so like ie/ei. But I agree with your overall sentiment.

Anonymous 3:22 PM  

Bleccch

Anonymous 4:10 PM  

That hang/para bothered me more than it should

Anonymous 5:30 PM  

The revealer should have been EXCEPT AFTER C

Anonymous 5:58 PM  

For 11D [What a provocateur aims to do], I had STIR up shiT before STIR THE POT.

Gary Jugert 7:49 PM  

Ay-ei-ei. Well, it's a rebus, so that's fun. Of course the whole time you're worried of the app wants EI, or IE, or EI/IE and you dread filling the final square because you know you're gonna see the "Almost" box, but it said, "you're cool" this time and said I blazed through it. So, easy I suppose if you discount the queasy doubt.

Again, no revealer takes the "why" away from the conceit.

SANT crossing NAVI and THE INDIES was poor, but the rest of the grid seemed well deployed. Well, HEIGH HO is beyond ghastly.

Hey Jon and Carl: How about losing MATADOR from your word list. They suck.

Tee-Hee: How many NYTXW editors does it take to STIR THE POT? The same number that play STRIP POKER, i. e. none. {Explainer, the editorial crew doesn't know pot isn't stirred and none of them ever played the card game correctly (apparently), so the joke is that they're not very worldly. It's kinda mean at their expense, but they gave us this IE jumbled mess, so we lash out.}

Uniclues:

1 Caffeinated beverages consumed against the teaching of the church.
2 Bird on a wasp's shoulder.
3 Killer killin' in church.
4 Where one with a deep voice comfortably complains.
5 Those needing murdered according to European invaders.
6 List of pre-Columbians without skin art.
7 Teachers' opinion of rat fink middle schooler.
8 The pretty little dress worn by a dude paid for pointless murder.

1 ANTSY UTAH GROG (~)
2 STINGER'S PARROT
3 ORCA ACES AMENS (~)
4 BASSO RANT SEAT
5 THE INDIES HUMANS
6 INCA NO-TAT LOGS
7 UGH, STOOLIE TEEN
8 MATADOR'S DRAG

My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: The dude standing behind the potted plant. FROND SPY.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anonymous 9:44 PM  

I spent some amount of time trying to figure out how EDITOR fit into the theme…I wanted it to be EDITOR/IDETOR, which is obviously nothing. But I wanted something!

Anonymous 4:35 AM  

Four…

okanaganer 1:18 PM  

Bizarrely, this was record setting easy-fast for me, except the northeast which was impossible. Turned out for "Symbol on a score" looking at -L--, it had to be CLEF and I couldn't get past that. Also had UTE instead of UTA and MAGI instead of MAGE, so got frustrated and ended up cheating with "check all letters" to find the problem.

Thanks @JustJim for the info on Bladderball. Doing my architecture degree at U of Manitoba in the mid 1980s, the faculty had a unique sport called Ditchball. You see, the snow really piles up in Winnipeg (simply because it doesn't melt for 6 months) and some students had a bright idea to bribe the snow clearing staff to pile it all up to make a giant snow ditch, in which they would play a game with a big ball. It was quite a highlight of the year, if a bit violent. Here is a Youtube video.

[Spelling Bee: Thu 0. News flash... OPAH was rejected yd, dbyd it was VIAND. Is Sam finally cleaning up the word list?]

okanaganer 1:25 PM  

Oh! forgot to add re Ditchball.. part of the fun was creating your team name and identity. My friend Ann was tall, slender, and dark haired, so we dressed her up as Boy George, and we called ourselves Boy Gorge and the Culvert Club (this was 1984).

Shandra Dykman 1:58 PM  

Ooo now I really, really want to see Vivica Fox’s Scarlett O’Hara

Diana, LIW 12:14 PM  

Talk about a miserable experience. I knew E and I were involved, bu...t

blah

D, LIW

Burma Shave 1:04 PM  

PARROT ITSAHELP

ONE who IS A TEEN has grown
enough to LURE and STIRTHE ladies,
but IT’S NO DRAG when oats are SOWN
by HORNy HUMANS in their EIGHTIES.

--- THE NAVI LAMA

rondo 2:35 PM  

I called this mess yesterday. Unfun. EIEI DOA. Remember when there were frequent Patrick Berry and David Steinberg puzzles? And others? Where is the quality now?
Wordle birdie.

Anonymous 3:22 PM  

IE-EI… Whoopy ding. (So what!).

Don Byas 10:56 AM  

a big rien for this puzzle — good, not.....bien,nein

Anonymous 6:22 PM  

E-I-E-I no.

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