Berth place / WED 3-6-2024 / Snack whose name comes from the Quechua for "dried meat" / Rathskeller offerings, informally

Wednesday, March 6, 2024

Constructor: Brad Wiegmann

Relative difficulty: Hard :( 11:46


THEME: Famous men / numbers / letters... — The entries describe the men literally, including their letters, and the descriptions go from 1-4

Theme answers:
  • [Nicholson and Nicklaus, e.g.?] for ONE-EYED JACKS (They're both Jacks that only have one "i" in their names.)
  • [Soren Kierkegaard and Chris Isaak, e.g.?] for DOUBLE AGENTS (They're both gents that have double "a"s in their names.)
  • [Percy Bysshe Shelley and Billy Ray Cyrus, e.g.?] for THREE WISE MEN (They're both men that have three "y"s in their names.)
  • [Henry the Eighth and Hubert H. Humphrey, e.g.?] for FOUR-H LEADERS (They're both leaders that have four "h"s in their names.)

Word of the Day: ADONIS (Persephone's lover) —
The myth goes that Adonis was gored by a wild boar during a hunting trip and died in Aphrodite's arms as she wept. His blood mingled with her tears and became the anemone flower. Aphrodite declared the Adonia festival to commemorate his tragic death, which was celebrated by women every year in midsummer. During this festival, Greek women would plant "gardens of Adonis", small pots containing fast-growing plants, which they would set on top of their houses in the hot sun. The plants would sprout, but soon wither and die. Then the women would mourn the death of Adonis, tearing their clothes and beating their breasts in a public display of grief. [Wiki]
• • •

Hey there, faithful solvers! Today's a Malaika MWednesday, and as always I am excited to share my thoughts and see what y'all have to say. If you'd like to get in the mood (the Malaika Mood, if you will), you can put on the same music I was listening to while I solved, which was "Bridge Over Troubled Water." More on that in the P.S. Onwards!

I really struggled with this puzzle. In retrospect, I have heard of both of the men in the first clue, but when presented with just their last names, I didn't get what I was looking for. At the next clue, I didn't know either of the men and literally sighed in a "Oh no, it's one of these puzzles," fashion. With the men in the third clue, there seemed to be more hope, but the men in the fourth clue threw me again-- I briefly got Hubert H. Humphrey confused with Hugh Hefner (yikes) and then Humbert Humbert (double yikes).



On top of that, I didn't know two of the theme entries themselves-- ONE-EYED JACKS and FOUR-H LEADERS were both new to me. The latter was incredibly hard to parse. The bottom left, where there was a pile-up of short multi-word entries (I FOLD, NO LIE, SUE ME) also caused me some problems. (I liked the food-filled corner opposite, though-- with PAPAWS, JERKY, and SALSA.)

In college sometimes I would eat jerky for dinner :)

I don't consider myself a huge stickler for parallelism in themes but here it leapt out at me-- you simply do not count by going One, Double, Three, Four! If it were entries that started with various mismatched numerical terms, like one, double, trio, quarter, I'd have less of a problem with it, although that would obviously be harder to work into the clues. The more I reflect on the cleverness of the parsing, the more this grows on me, but while solving I found it a bit of a slog, and even afterwards I wouldn't say I'm dazzled. Curious to see how you all feel!

Bullets:
  • [Rathskeller offerings, informally] for BREWSKIS — I've heard of "brewski" for beer, but always figured the plural would be "brewskies." I think this entry is supposed to be the actual German word though, not the American slang, which is hinted at by using (apparently) the German word for "bar" in the clue.
  • [Frog transformer] for KISS — I thought this was very cute :)
  • [Convex navel] for OUTIE — I cracked up laughing at using the mathematical term "convex" to describe a belly button. But, they're not wrong!!
  • [Gooey sandwiches, informally] for PBJS — Idk why but this grossed me out!! A sandwich should not be "gooey!!" Do not describe a sandwich to me as gooey!!!! 
  • [Lighthearted refrain] for TRALA — This is one of those entries that I would like to see totally phased out, along with "tec." I'd be more sympathetic if it were Captain Underpants' "tra la la" but with just two syllables it sounds so lacking.
xoxo Malaika

P.S. On Twitter, people have been discussing the prompt "thirteen albums to know me." The idea is that it's un-ordered, and off the top of your head-- don't agonize over the decision!! Here were mine, if you're interested in knowing me: 
  • Pure Heroine (Lorde)
  • Jagged Little Pill (Alanis Morissette)
  • Let Go (Avril Lavigne)
  • Come Away With Me (Norah Jones)
  • Lemonade (Beyonce)
  • Bridge Over Troubled Water (Simon & Garfunkel)
  • ANTI (Rihanna)
  • SOUR (Olivia Rodrigo)
  • Speak Now (Taylor Swift)
  • Rumours (Fleetwood Mac)
  • Tapestry (Carol King)
  • Wildheart (Miguel)
  • 19 (Adele)

[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]

95 comments:

okanaganer 12:57 AM  

In honor of our brother bocamp, currently missing in action, I solved this down clues only. I think I did pretty well, but for 57 down "Sticky stuff" had TAR instead of SAP so 2 wrong squares. And like yesterday, without reading the across clues had not a clue what the theme was. But upon reading the clues, it was a pleasant discovery! In case anyone's unclear, here they are decoded:
ONE "I"D JACKS
DOUBLE "A" GENTS
THREE "Y"S MEN
FOUR "H" LEADERS

However Malaika I do agree with your objection to DOUBLE. (Alternative: TWO PEAS IN A POD?...probably not.) Also, the H in FOUR H is just the letter H all by itself, which breaks the pattern.

Your album list impressively spans the decades. "Bridge" and "Tapestry" were hits when I was a little kid.

[Spelling Bee: Tues 0; last word this 8er.]

Anonymous 1:16 AM  

PAWPAW crossed with PURL got me today, because I’m not really familiar with either.

But other than that snag—which I don’t think most people would find too tough— I liked today’s! Double-a-gent made me chuckle, and was the thing I immediately thought of looking at those names.

jae 1:22 AM  

Medium. The top half was easier than the bottom for me, e.g. goo>tAr >SAP in the SE and I call before I FOLD in the SW.

Clever and amusing, liked it.

@Malaika - It appears that some of your difficulties with this are generational. If you had been around for the Democratic convention in Chicago in 1968 (google “police riot”) you wouldn’t have confused Humphrey with Hefner.

Speaking of generational differences,I know songs from 5 of your album choices. Three of them came out before you were born, the fourth is Norah Jones, and the 5th is Speak Now as I have recently become a bit of a Swiftie.

Actually, I’ve also probably heard cuts from 19.

Michael 1:56 AM  

Luckily for me I found this one really easy because I spotted the Double A's as the connection, not even knowing what the pun would be, and one-eyed Jacks was well known to a fan of both card games and Twin Peaks.

My bigger problem in parallelism is the letters. In the first three they're phonetically part of words – A(GENTS), EYE(D), WISE, but in the last one it's just a standalone H. Doesn't really work!

Anonymous 2:16 AM  

The crossing of PURL with PAPAWS, two words I’ve never heard (at least not in context - I called my grandfather Papaw), ultimately did me in. Got the “keep trying” and that was the only spot I was unsure of. Had cURL and PAcAWS there (both seemed as plausible as anything). Frustrating end to a puzzle I actually enjoyed.

Conrad 5:09 AM  


I solved it "Downs-only lite" (not reading the clues for the long acrosses), and found it easier than @Malaika did. And my reaction when I finished and read the clues was similar to @okanaganer's. Very cute, acknowledging that the "H" in 48A was an outlier.

Only two overwrites:
FARM hAND before LAND at 36D before reading the clue
ship before DOCK for the berthing place at 51D

@Malaika, in order to listen to my "albums to know me" you'd need a crank-up Victrola and a player piano :)

Anonymous 5:16 AM  

I know I’ve seen papaw before but I had papaya and thought papaw was pawpaw so that stumped me for a bit. Other answers that tormented me were TRALA, IOWEYA (couldn’t see this as I owe ya), and I had IMOUT instead of IFOLD. I agree KISS was cute and I also thought Brewskies had an E but spell-check is telling me otherwise. Tough Wednesday puzzle for me :)

Bob Mills 5:21 AM  

I for one thought the theme was clever and well crafted. One-double-three-four didn't bother me at all. On balance the puzzle was quire easy, at least by Wednesday standards.

David Pinkus 5:32 AM  

It took me a while to figure out the theme answers and having PAPAYA instead of PAPAW, IMOUT instead of IFOLD, ALES instead of ADES (I thought libations implied alcohol), and NEWEST instead of RAWEST slowed me down a bit. I also deeply disliked TRALA as you’ll never ever hear TRALA TRALA said back to back. Hard Wednesday, but KISS for frog transformer was delightful enough to make up for it. 🐸

JD 5:57 AM  

Definitely, generationally easier to solve. As with @Pinkus and probably more to come, Papaya before Papaw, and for me, difficulty compounded by I Owe Ya. Wanted a T before the H in Four H, until things shaped up.

Loved One-Eyed Jacks.

Anonymous 5:58 AM  

The 4-H organization is hyphenated. The h’s stand for head , heart, hands, and health.

Anonymous 6:05 AM  

ANTI! Good taste, M

There may be a generational divide here because this was FAST for me (sub 4, w/o really trying). ONE-EYED JACKS is a playing card thing, and a bar in “Twin Peaks” maybe, iirc

FOUR-H LEADERS seems v weak—the “leaders” part. Phrase doesn’t resonate with me. But theme is cute. ~RP

Anonymous 6:17 AM  

"Brewskis" is not a thing any German would say. Using Rathskeller in the clue is honestly misdirection.

Anonymous 6:17 AM  

As a German, this lost me when Ratskeller was misspelled and got worse when they used a word no German would use to describe beer. Brewski is more likely a Polish surname as it is a beer.

Adam 6:27 AM  

I caLl before I FOLD (I had the I and the L, but quickly realized it couldn't be). And I've always thought BREWSKIS was the correct plural--that's how I see it in my head. Agree with everyone about the H and with @Malaika about the use of DOUBLE--but I thought it was an impressive theme progression nonetheless. The rest was relatively straightforward.

SouthsideJohnny 6:58 AM  

FOURHLEADERS was really tough to parse together - just had to trust the crosses (ditto for TRALA which is also pretty vague). PURL x PAWPAW nabbed me as well. Tough, but reasonably fair for a Wednesday.

T.P O'Neill 7:04 AM  

"We're the party of a great man who should have been President, who would have been one of the greatest Presidents in history, Hubert Horatio Hornblower"

You got most of that right, Jimmy. :)

David Grenier 7:04 AM  

The middle killed me today. I had DEAD for Kaput and got FOUR H LEADERS and THEEE WISE MEN early. I didn’t grok the letter but if the theme but confidently put ONE and TWO at the beginning of the first and second themers. Combine that with never having heard of PAPAWS, not being able to get either ADONIS or IOWEYA and that whole middle bit was just S’ed in the B for me.

As always coming here helps me appreciate the theme more. Even after completing it I didn’t really get the letter piece aside from “four H”.

Anonymous 7:32 AM  

Mostly pretty easy but JOT/PAPAWS/I OWE YA???

Lewis 7:35 AM  

Lovely wordplay theme answers, the best being, in my view, DOUBLE AGENTS, that so wonderfully changes its meaning when you add that space between A and G. Worth the price of admission, IMO, elicitor of a mighty “Hah!”, and cause of one of those rare and wonderful crossword moments where I linger for a moment, and dwell in its beauty.

I liked the mini-theme of ingestibles: PBJS, LIME, LEMON BAR, SARDINES, PAWPAWS, JERKY, SALSA, and see related GORGE and BITES. Also, BITES abutting CRIME reminded me of those McGruff the Dog ads.

But mostly, I liked the twinkle in Brad’s eye, where I hear him saying, “Hey, gang, I found these cool bits of wordplay. They made me smile, and I want to share them, hoping they make you smile as well!”

Well, Brad, they did, and thank you, sir, for brightening my day!

kitshef 7:41 AM  

Solving across only, it was really hard to let go of 'a pair of JACKS', which made seeing the theme a real problem.

Interesting album list. Some I love (Bridge over Troubled Water, Jagged Little Pill, Let Go), some that have had no impact on my life and could not name a song from (Lemonade, Wildheart), and one I hate with a burning fire (SOUR).

Andy Freude 7:44 AM  

If you put that second “e” in BREWSKIS, Malaika, you get an Irving Berlin song:
“Brewskies, smiling’ at me . . .”

Anonymous 7:44 AM  

This was pretty easy for Wednesday. Nice theme, required some use of my brain, but no real challenge.

Anonymous 7:55 AM  

Good to see the bucolic 4-H in the urbane NYT, but 4 is not spelled out in the organization’s name.

Nancy 8:11 AM  

So clever! So amusing! So imaginative! I love this!

And I couldn't guess any of the themers ahead of time. The wordplay is just tricky enough and the answers are just different enough in how they employ that wordplay that getting one really won't help you with the next. Three of the theme answers are really embedded in the language and work beautifully. The last one, FOUR H LEADERS, is a little green-paint-y, but not so much as to spoil what's quite an enjoyable romp.

Again, this is a puzzle that I imagine the constructor, once he he's found the people who can serve as his clues and once he's come up with theme answers that are happily symmetrical leaping out of bed in the middle of the night and shouting "Eureka!"

Should I write this one down in a running list that I'm making for POY nominations at the end of the year? If only it were just a little bit harder...

Oh, heck. I'll write it down anyway. It's so delightful.

mmorgan 8:16 AM  

I thought the theme was great! Yeah, it can be nit-picked, but c’mon, kick back, relax, and have fun with it, as it wants to have fun with you. Loved it, lots of little ahas. A great theme like this makes the rest of the puzzle invisible but it was fine.

Dr.A 8:18 AM  

Whoever constructed this puzzle is very lucky it’s a Malaika Mwednesday and not an @Rex day because all I could think was “Rex is going to tear this apart” I thought the “theme” was really bad. I am not too judgy, I like puns but it it was totally inconsistent in so many ways. Ugh, just painful.
This puzzle was a huge NO for me.

Berndo 8:18 AM  

I will never, ever remember that papaw is a thing. Its on crosswords every so often, and it always messes me up.

pabloinnh 8:32 AM  

Aside from repeatedly misreading a number--very good at that, as I practice--and wondering how ONEEYEDJACKS could be a "knitter's stitch", this went down easily. Slight pause to ponder why PBS was airing a network show and what a "prime ring" might be, but that was easily fixed.

No problem with BREWSKIS, if you think about the plural of "ski". I remember a woman on our local listserve who was looking for a pair of "lightly use skies", a rarity indeed.

Had the FAR part of the Nebraska clue and wanted FARRIGHT. Too much depressing news has that top of mind these days.

PBJ and PBJS always seems like it's missing the "and" to me. Also, pbandj is part of our email address, as I am PB and my wife is J. Counting that as a partial @Roo.

I thought this was clever and ingenious DW and the DOUBLE in with the numbers bothered me not at all. Did Wonder about a couple of things, but fixing them was entirely satisfying. Thanks for all the fun.

Anonymous 8:34 AM  

What I love most, Malaika, is that - like others - I found this puzzle generational to me and fairly easy. Yet it still took me twice the “hard” time it took you to solve!!! :)

RooMonster 8:49 AM  

Hey All !
Well, sugar pops. Had the Almost There pop up, took a good 5 minute go-back-through look, but didn't find anything. I had cURL for PURL, seeing PAcAWS as a potential problem, but PURL was hiding very well in the ole brain. I did change the C to a K, with c/kURL the only thing I was thinking. Finally relented, hit Check Puzzle, and once it crossed out the C, the ole brain said, "It's a P! PURL/PAPAWS. Ha-Ha, got you!"
Silly brain.

Closed NW/SE corners. Fill good. Four cheater squares, but if it helps the fill, that's fine. Fairly easy. Mad at PURL. 😁

Happy Wednesday. I'm OUTIE. ADIEU.

DOUBLE F's
RooMonster
DarrinV

burtonkd 8:58 AM  

What a linguistic find! The RP in my head noted Double outlier, and flashed "green paint" for 4-H leaders, but worth it for all these great standalone phrases. Who ever said lack of exact parallelism is a cardinal SIN?

In my household, I'm a fan of the peanut butter that comes out of the machine at the store, which you can verify is 100% peanuts and firmer than the goopy creamy stuff (favored by others) that would make a gooey sandwich.

Point of discussion: Concord Grape is the standard for a pbj, but I like just about anything else more: cherry, orange marmalade, fig jam, strawberry, raspberry.

Sardine papaw jerky salsa would make a nice ipecac. pawpaw seems to be the more common spelling. They apparently don't package and travel well, so you have to eat them in season at their location which is mostly southern.

dragoo 9:05 AM  

Looks like the editorial team missed a dupe in this one: JOT is an English transliteration of the Greek letter IOTA.

Example: In the passage from the New Testament, "Till heaven and earth pass, one JOT or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled," the word JOT translates the Greek IOTA (i.e., the smallest letter), and "tittle," meaning the dot over the letter (i.e., the smallest part of the smallest letter) translates the greek "keraia".

Beezer 9:15 AM  

I agree that this was a very clever and enjoyable puzzle! Malaika, I know that @Rex would go after the outlier of DOUBLEAGENTS so you are in good company with that. But…count me in amongst those that weren’t bothered by it. I also had FOURrLEADERS and it took me awhile to think of HAH as a taunting laugh rather than HAr-d-har har.

Also, for the most part, really like your album list and was happy to see I was familiar with most. I’d have to put Goodbye Yellow Brick Road in my list. One of the best examples of all the songs seamlessly segueing into the next. I even think @Nancy might agree!

EasyEd 9:23 AM  

One of my easiest Wednesdays ever. And much fun! The first thought I had on reading Malaika’s review was “generational gap” and it seems just about everyone picked up on that. Light and fun wordplay with a few logical/linguistic inconsistencies that didn’t spoil the humor or ease of solving. For some reason my brain always wants to go with PeRL instead of PURL, so that was last to go…

Gary Jugert 9:35 AM  

Zipped through this one and I didn't understand any of the theme entries, but crosses took them out. Afterward I studied them and they're cool. I am a sucker for homophones. DOUBLE A GENTS is my favorite. A tougher puzzle might have forced me to wrap my head around the theme sooner, but I try not to grumble about easy puzzles after so many Saturdays have been Go-ogle-fests. Take the wheelhouse solves when ya gettum.

Are PBJs gooey? After writing ÉPÉE hundreds of times in puzzles and never once seeing it in real life, I learned today it has not one but two accents.

Uniclues:

1 Thanks for making me the second best looking man ever.
2 Rhyming nickname for goodnight girl obsessed with fish in tins.

1 ADONIS, I OWE YA
2 SARDINES IRENE

My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: "Someday, when I am big, they will hew me down in my prime to make way for a cement diversion culvert." ACORN'S REVERIE.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Warren G. 9:36 AM  

40 year old here, clocking a slightly worse than average time on this one, mostly thanks to the wonky keyboard I played on but also in part due to the lower left corner, where I initially filled “I CALL” rather than “I FOLD.” In a similar position as another commenter who said that the “LEADERS” part of the 4-H clue felt less than obvious, but I’ll concede that it is an actual term used by the organization.

As for your music tastes, brava! Quite refreshing to see Simon & Garfunkel, Carole King, and Fleetwood Mac sharing space with Alanis and Olivia.

Anonymous 9:57 AM  

TIL this!

Mike 10:00 AM  

For the life of me I could not see the four Hs in Henry the Eighth until it dawned on me that they're counting the H in "the." Reminds me of my favorite dumb joke.

What do John the Baptist and Winnie the Pooh have in common? The same middle name.

Kate Esq 10:04 AM  

I didn’t find this particularly difficult, but while we are nitpicking the theme, I didn’t like that A and H were just the letters, and Eyed and Wise were the letters phonetically spelled out. That said, I did think it was clever and I caught on fairly quickly once I got the Jacks.

Christopher Castoro 10:24 AM  

I found this puzzle to be very easy, and the theme is quite clever. I think it leans toward older solvers who are familiar with names our friend Malaika did not know, although once you pick up on the theme you really don't need to know who they are.

Whatsername 10:30 AM  

Unlike Malaika, I found this very easy, but I have a strong suspicion that’s because I’m a little older than she is, give or take a few decades. It was interesting to read her reaction of having no IDEA about the names in the clues, etc. I certainly understand how she feels when I’m trying to figure out the name of some youthful musical artist popular these days. And I’m guessing that FOUR H LEADERS tripped up people of all ages because I was one and even I resisted filling that in. The proper name of the organization referred to there is the 4-H Club.

Fun but little known fact: The PAPAW is the official Missouri state fruit but around here we call them PAWPAWS. The trees grow wild and produce an odd-shaped fruit which reportedly contains some potent antioxidants and has even been USEd to make beer. Spring blossoms have a very unpleasant odor to attract pollinators but then all is forgiven in the fall when the leaves turn a stunning golden color.

Tom P 10:34 AM  

As a Baby Boomer, I'm joining the ranks of those who found this puzzle easy (three minutes faster than my average Wednesday time) and fun to solve. Wasn't bothered by the inconsistencies in theme answers and was amused by the wordplay.

Fun_CFO 10:43 AM  

Good Wednesday, and nice theme. Did play fast even with the same @kitshef mistake of apairofJACKS, which turned the easy mid-top into a time waste. I’m still a little fuzzy how I hit the first themed clue w/o any 5-8 downs. Must have skipped over BOGS, then completed the NE corner, leaving JACKS and confidently entered my error. Still finished faster than avg.

Thematically, agree with the DOUBLE outlier. I thought JACKS was as well. it doesn’t really describe a trait/feature (gent, men, leader) vs their proper first name. Whatever. The theme is clever, albeit loose.

Enjoyed.

Anonymous 10:48 AM  

Can someone explain 3 down? How does “certain fire sign” equal “leo”?

Made in Japan 10:50 AM  

I liked it. I didn't find it particularly hard. Though there were a lot of proper names in the theme clues, it didn't take me long to see that it wasn't about the people themselves, but the commonalities in their names. Admittedly, I initially saw only the fact that the first pair started with "Nic", but that cleared quickly.

I didn't see too much generational bias; it certainly didn't skew young, but it didn't skew old much either. One thing that was probably more of a rural/urban skew than a generational skew was FOUR-H, but I didn't even see it until the downs had filled it in for me.

jb129 11:10 AM  

Hi Malaika!
Easiest Wednesday I can remember. And FUN. Loved it!
Thanks, Brad :)

Masked and Anonymous 11:14 AM  

@Malaika darlin: thUmbsUp for "Rumors" and "Bridge Over Troubled Water". But bein an olde fart, altho M&A has many albums, he ain't played em in years … so have forgotten mosta their titles. I usually just play hand-built CDs of oldies songs, all mixed together, in my older-than-snot car.
sooo … that's m&e.

Thought today's puztheme was a hoot. Most enjoyable. Knew just about all the theme clue names… not that one would necessarily need to.

staff weeject pick: LEO - Its clue was a total mystery to m&e. Lost a few precious nanoseconds.

BREWSKIS, SARDINES, & LEMONBARs. kinda tasty. Sooo… now IOWEYA, Brad. I'll pass on the PBJS, tho… have already GORGEd too much.

{John Travolta & Billy Bob Thornton, e.g.?} = ?*

Thanx for the fun, Mr. Wiegmann dude. Nice job.

Masked & Anonymo4Us

p.s.
* = FILMTEASERS. [T-sirs] Yeah, ...didn't think so.


**gruntz**

Anonymous 11:44 AM  

The English language is messy, flexible and powerful. The expression of today’s theme exemplifies this beautifully.

johnk 11:46 AM  

Extremely easy. PERL before PURL, and NEWEST before RAWEST, but BRUCE and IRENE straightened me out.
Where are BRUCE and IRENE now? "Way down yonder in the asinine triloba patch"? The common name of the asinine triloba is variously spelled pawpaw, paw paw, paw-paw, and papaw. "Way down yonder in the papaw patch" has a better rhythm.

Emily Ransom 11:59 AM  

I was embarrassed to be thrown off in the mythology department. When I saw the clue “Persephone’s lover,” I thought “HADES!? Surely not!!!” which of course it wasn’t since it wouldn’t fit. Eventually I got ADONIS with the crosses, but I honestly didn’t know the part of the myth that had Aphrodite and Persephone sharing Adonis. The myth of Venus/Aphrodite and Adonis is much more common (and perhaps more Wednesday-worthy?).

GILL I. 12:13 PM  

I'm going to sit right down with @Nancy, make her a dessert with PAPAWS infused with a LEMON LIME BAR. Take the J for JELLY and smear it on. We had some BRIE and SARDINES before selecting and agreeing that this should be the POY. Yes indeedy.
I thought this puzzle was brilliant. The DOUBLE instead of TWO didn't bother in the least.
I won't forget this one!

ac 12:41 PM  

the clues are great it's just really good cluing period and the goofy reveals are not wrong its just being silly..
getting really tired of overly critical thinking unless the puzzle is just a plain old bore which sadly is often!

this is not the case here.. I do puzzles for the clues and these were worded beautifully it made you Think

Anoa Bob 1:00 PM  

The upper left and lower right corners being all but closed off and filled with 3s and 4s gave this grid an ominous look right out of the gate. The 40 black squares further darkened prospects by segmenting the rest of the grid to make it look like a bunch of mini puzzles. Served to SAP some of my enthusiasm before even beginning the solve.

The themers didn't save the day for me. I thought they were wide of the mark on one of the guidelines in the Submit Your Crossword Puzzles to The New York Times: "...if the theme includes a particular kind of pun, then all the puns should be of that kind."

There's the ONE, THREE, FOUR vs DOUBLE issue. Then two of the puns use homophones for the featured letter while the other two use the literal letter. And although one of the literal letter themers has a clever DOUBLE interpretation, DOUBLE A GENTS and DOUBLE AGENTS, the other one is left slowly twisting in the wind with only the mundane FOUR H LEADERS interpretation.

That was my take last night after solving so I was surprised today that so many commenters, including RP dropping by, seem to totally ADORE this one.

Oh well, it's too early to have some BREWSKIS so maybe I'll check the fridge to see if there are any ADES.

Whatsername 1:01 PM  

@Anonymous (10:48) It has to do with astrology. The Zodiac signs are divided into four elements - fire, earth, air, and water. LEO is considered a Fire sign.

Anonymous 1:07 PM  

LEO being a fire sign refers to astrology. There are fire, water, and air signs in the Zodiac.

I loved this theme! Super fun to parse the letters and get the pattern.

Crossing PAPAWS with PURL was ouch.

Nancy 1:58 PM  

@GILL -- You know I'll eagerly sit down for a meal with you any time -- even though in this case I'll have to eat [gasp] PAWPAWS infused with a LEMON LIME BAR and smeared with JELLY? Yikes!

@Beezer brought me into the album discussion and I was suddenly curious. So even though I hadn't noticed Malaika's list, I went back and looked. And turns out that I only knew one (1!!!) album on her list: Bridge Over Troubled Water. That one would certainly be on my list. So why don't I give you my list -- very different from Malaika's and maybe from many of yours, too:

BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER (Simon and Garfunkle)
IN THE WIND (Peter, Paul and Mary)
COME FLY WITH ME and WEE SMALL HOURS (Sinatra)
THE WEAVERS AT CARNEGIE HALL (1957)
THE FREEWHEELIN' BOB DYLAN
WILDFLOWERS (Judy Collins)
AN EVENING WITH BELAFONTE
ELLA SINGS THE GERSHWIN SONGBOOK
And the Original Cast Albums of:
CAROUSEL
PORGY AND BESS
SOUTH PACIFIC
THE KING AND I
BRIGADOON
THE FANTASTICKS
MY FAIR LADY
A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC
SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE






Doug Garr 2:12 PM  

I thought this was Monday easy. I had more trouble the past two days. And I'm only a medium-level solver.

kitshef 2:24 PM  

@Malaika and @Nancy - my biggest question, is, how do you pick one Simon and Garfunkel album? If I were to pick my top ten, or fifteen or whatever number S&G songs, they would be split pretty evenly among Sounds of Silence, Parsley Sage Rosemary and Thyme, Bookends, and Bridge over Trouble Water. I think I'd give the nod to PSR&T, but ask me tomorrow and my answer may well be different.

Beezer 2:33 PM  

@Nancy…I LOVE the King and I! We had the boxed set of 45s and I played it so much as a kid that at one point I knew all the lyrics to every song.

Jamie 2:40 PM  

Agreed with some that the theme is pretty grim. At least the first themer requires you to know that both men are named Jack. The other three are just gents/men/leaders. Meh. Would have loved this much more if there was a wacky connection between the two dudes.

Also just...so many dudes. The theme clues give us 8 men, plus ADONIS and BRUCE, vs. just one EDIE Falco and (I suppose) NIECE. Then, to really ram home the patriarchy, you've got EMIR and TSAR. Let's shake it up!

Chip Hilton 3:02 PM  

@Nancy: We appear to overlap, musically & generationally. Here are mine:
1. Rubber Soul - Beatles
2. Rumours - Fleetwood Mac
3. We Five - We Five
4. Bookends - Simon & Garfunkel
5. Judy Collins 5
6. Wildflowers - Judy Collins
7.In the Wind - Peter, Paul, & Mary
8. Come On, Come On- Mary Chapin Carpenter
9. Faithfully - Johnny Mathis
10. West Side Story - movie soundtrack
11. December - George Winston
12. The Best of Joe & Eddie
13. Abbey Road - Beatles

I saved my classical favorites for another list. And, I, too, enjoyed today’s puzzle.

Anonymous 3:04 PM  

Zodiac sign of Leo us a “fire sign”

TTrimble 3:13 PM  

@okanaganer (and others):

I reached out to bocamp, and he responded: he had a mild stroke a few weeks ago, and is convalescing at Vancouver General Hospital. He says he's doing better and may be off to rehab soon. He sends his regards to all.

BlueStater 3:19 PM  

Pointlessly nasty and no fun.

Joe Dipinto 3:31 PM  

I like that the presentation is varied across the four theme answers. It still makes for a satisfying whole.

I have 14 recordings of the three Brahms violin & piano sonatas. Slightly over the limit for the exercise at hand, but I'll just go with those since I like them all. You'd only have to listen to one. Maybe this duo.

Dennis from Texas 4:48 PM  

I don't comment that much but my gut tells me that Rex would be kicking this puzzle's butt for 3 or 4 paragraphs. LOL. I thought it was fun and clever and flowed right along once the tricky theme was revealed. Although, thank goodness for the intersecting downs. I also agree with Malaika regarding the use of "double" in the string, but I really didn't even notice this until I read her recap. I'm not a crossword creator and can only imagine how certain liberties need to be taken once in a while.

Anonymous 4:59 PM  

Late in the game, but One Eyed Jacks is also the name of a Western movie starring Marlon Brando and Karl Malden from the early 60s.

dgd 5:28 PM  

Anonymous 2:16 AM
Purl is one of the many crosswordese terms that I mostly or only know from crosswords. UR is a convenient letter combination. It hasn’t come up in a while but it has frequently appeared in the past. Also it is well known by the large group of people who like knitting. So it is a fair word choice. It will come up again!

JC66 5:33 PM  

@TTrimble

Thanks for the update. Please give @Bocamp my best.

Anonymous 5:44 PM  

I was solving while listening to this new (as of a couple weeks ago) cover of A Bridge Over Troubled Water from Jacob Collier. It's so good I can't stop.

Anonymous 5:45 PM  

Anonymous 6:17AM
About the Rathskeller clue.
Ratskeller is the current spelling of the word in German. It means loosely town hall cellar (bar understood) It got borrowed by English speakers under the old spelling. Brewski is American slang with a SLAVIC ending. Not German at all. Rathskeller now is just a common US name for restaurants and bars emphasizing beer. In that sense the clue works.

okanaganer 5:48 PM  

@TTrimble: thank you! I had feared the worst so even though it's not great news, that is a relief to hear. Let him know he is missed. And that I almost did another Wednesday downs-only.

Anonymous 5:53 PM  

Dr. A
Rex did comment above. as anonymous , RP at the end. He basically liked it. He thought it was easy. with a cute theme.
but thought four h leaders was weak.

dgf 6:12 PM  

I liked the puzzle. Found it easy because I am old. RP liked it so apparently okay for Gen xers too. (RP as Anonymous).
Purl bothered some I guess younger people. Old crosswordese to me. Example of generational aspect.
Jot and iota. Shortz & Co. have been allowing vastly more obvious dupes than that NOT an editor fail. They like that sort of thing.

Tallulah 6:22 PM  

Loved this puzzle. Loved the play on words - silly, fun, clever. And it felt just right for a Wednesday. I try to get interested in Mondays and Tuesdays, but they're just too straightforward to be fun.

burtonkd 6:35 PM  

@Joe Dipinto: do you have the Grumiaux/Sebok? So silky and warm, mature pacing.

jae 6:40 PM  

@TTrimble - Thanks for the bocamp news. Hope he makes it back here soon.

Georgia 8:06 PM  

Agree! A lovely, easy solve.

Joe Dipinto 9:01 PM  

@burtonkd – no, but I see they're posted on YouTube so I'll give a listen. At 14 (and counting?) I'm missing quite a few – not that I'm trying to collect every recording. The earliest one I have is Josef Suk/Julius Katchen from 1967.

B$ 9:09 PM  

I lookws @ Malaika's list and thought You're kind of young.
Then I saw @Nancy's list & thought, Wow, you're kind of very old.

FWIW,
Green Day American Idiot
Yes Fragile
CSN&Y Deja Vu
Elton John Aida
Lou Reed Transformer
RENT Broadway cast
Carole King Tapestry
Stones Sticky Fingers
Beatles Abbey Road
Dylan Greatest Hits
Eagles Hotel California
NWA Straight Outta Compton
Public Enemy It Takes a Nation of Millions

Bronwyn 11:58 PM  

I decided this puzzle was most definitely going to be Twin Peaks-themed after filling in ONE EYED JACKS and then the first part of DOUBLE AGENTS... Got as far as DOUBLE when, in astonishment, I started wondering if the answer would be DOUBLE R DINER. No such luck. Maybe next time!

Anonymous 4:56 AM  

“Leaders” refers to the “H”s being the initial letters of all four words.

Anonymous 5:33 AM  

Sorry Brad Wiegmann using an anonymous account, if you have to add a paragraph of explanation for everything from misspellings to mismatched entomology the clue doesn’t work in any sense.

Anonymous 10:08 AM  

Maybe it has already been said, but I want to log a formal complaint on PBJ(s) as an xword answer. The sandwich, abbreviated, is a PB’n’J or a PB and J. No one ever calls this a PBJ. It just is not done.

Nick 7:59 AM  

Agree. Good with brewskies. A brewskie is a brewskie.

Anonymous 9:56 AM  

Pretty, pretty, pretty good! The last themer had me scratching my head for a bit until I realized the THE was part of the name.

Anonymous 10:07 AM  

I also thought BRESKIS was wrong but the OED* lists both BREWSKIS and BREWSKIeS as being acceptable plurals of the word BREWSKI.

*Oxford English Dictionary

spacecraft 11:33 AM  

Couldn't get traction upstairs, so I solved backwards, starting in the SE with KISS. Always a good way to start anything! Got up to THREEWISEMEN...but there are only two! I thought. Then it hit me: it's not three MEN, but three Y's!! One of the year's best aha moments. From then on it was simple, and no, the DOUBLEAGENTS didn't bother me because how can you resist that one?

Nice job, and some fill to make you think, up top. Birdie.

Wordle eagle!

Diana, LIW 1:11 PM  

Talk about a streeeeetch...

I mean, it was clever, but.

And yet, I did get it and got the "theme" too.

Just back from ACPT in Stamford. 850 wordnerds having fun together. Will S. was there and introduced each contest/event. He's still in rehab, but looks like he's coming along. Got a standing O more than once.

Diana, Lady-in-Waiting for Crosswords

Burma Shave 2:36 PM  

JERKY IDEA

FARMLAND FOURHLEADERS won't KISS SUE
like THREEWISEMEN DONE before,
THESE DOUBLEAGENTS DO what IDO,
it's ONEEYEDJACKS that we ADORE.

--- BRUCE PURL

rondo 2:52 PM  

Got this DONE quickly. Noticed: IFOLD IOWEYA IDO. SPPD (Saint Paul Police Department) in the corners.
Wordle eagle!!!

Anonymous 3:58 PM  

Extremely easy puzzle. Easier than yesterday's puzzle. An age thing, I'm sure, plus this is my bajillionth xword puzzle.

wcutler 12:48 AM  

@Anonymous 10:08 AM, who said "I want to log a formal complaint on PBJ(s) as an xword answer. ... No one ever calls this a PBJ. It just is not done."
I'll log a formal rebuttal. I think "PBJ" is pronounced "PB and J" but not written that way. It's the opposite for BLT, for bacon, lettuce and tomato". It's never pronounced "B L and T", and not written that way.

Anonymous 2:13 PM  

H representing itself seemed lazy. FOREIGN LEADERS is too many letters but I bet you could come up with a pair of FORTY KNIGHTS (T's or D's)

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