Maker of small front-end loaders / THU 10-26-23 / Curriculum overhaul triggered by the Sputnik crisis / Boating noun and verb / Polymath called The First Teacher by medieval scholars / Character who nails a doubloon to the Pequod's mast / Farm animal in tot-speak / Noted honky-tonk venue, familiarly / Subgenre lead-in / Forager with tiny hooks on its tongue

Thursday, October 26, 2023

Constructor: John Donegan

Relative difficulty: Easy


THEME: Counting words — familiar expressions with numbers in them are represented literally in the grid, with all terms in the expression represented as discrete, countable units. So:

Theme answers:
  • "Two birds with one stone" => BIRD BIRD STONE (20A: What a multitasker might kill)
  • "Two places at once” (or “…at one time") => PLACE PLACE AT (32A: What it's impossible to be in)
  • "Once bitten, twice shy" => BITTEN SHY SHY (39A: Reluctant to relive an experience)
  • "Three Men and a Baby" => "MAN MAN MAN BABY" (54A: Top-grossing movie of 1987)
Word of the Day: NEW MATH (41D: Curriculum overhaul triggered by the Sputnik crisis) —
New Mathematics
 or New Math was a dramatic but temporary change in the way mathematics was taught in American grade schools, and to a lesser extent in European countries and elsewhere, during the 1950s–1970s. [...] These curricula were quite diverse, yet shared the idea that children's learning of arithmetic algorithms would last past the exam only if memorization and practice were paired with teaching for comprehension.More specifically, elementary school arithmetic beyond single digits makes sense only on the basis of understanding place value. This goal was the reason for teaching arithmetic in bases other than ten in the New Math, despite critics' derision: In that unfamiliar context, students couldn't just mindlessly follow an algorithm, but had to think why the place value of the "hundreds" digit in base seven is 49. Keeping track of non-decimal notation also explains the need to distinguish numbers (values) from the numerals that represent them. [...] Parents and teachers who opposed the New Math in the U.S. complained that the new curriculum was too far outside of students' ordinary experience and was not worth taking time away from more traditional topics, such as arithmetic. The material also put new demands on teachers, many of whom were required to teach material they did not fully understand. Parents were concerned that they did not understand what their children were learning and could not help them with their studies. [...] In his book Why Johnny Can't Add: The Failure of the New Math (1973), Morris Kline says that certain advocates of the new topics "ignored completely the fact that mathematics is a cumulative development and that it is practically impossible to learn the newer creations, if one does not know the older ones". Furthermore, noting the trend to abstraction in New Math, Kline says "abstraction is not the first stage, but the last stage, in a mathematical development". // As a result of this controversy, and despite the ongoing influence of the New Math, the phrase "new math" is often used now to describe any short-lived fad that quickly becomes discredited. In 1999, Time placed it on a list of the 100 worst ideas of the 20th century. (wikipedia)
• • •

I like this one, mainly for the creative variations on the theme. PLACE PLACE AT is particularly inspired. The idea of representing "at one time" as just AT ... it's so bold it's almost perverse. INSANE, even [“two places at once” is probably the intended interpretation, “at one time” works as well]. The others were more straightforward, but were varied enough (phrasing-wise, and numerically) to keep things interesting. The only downside was that the theme was exceedingly easy to pick up, and once picked up, even easier to apply to the remaining theme answers. The first BIRD alone gave me BIRD BIRD STONE, and after that, all the expressions were easy to work out from very little evidence. I had the bizarre experience of doing another puzzle earlier today, just hours before I solved this one, that had a remarkably similar conceit—it had a progression of "single" "double" "triple" and "quadruple" phrases that were represented according the same principle as the themers in this puzzle (DOG DARE DOG DARE for "double-dog dare," for instance). I don't know if having solved that puzzle primed me for this one, or took away some of the surprise and joy I might've experienced solving this one. Just a strange, strange coincidence. But at any rate, as I say, I liked this fine. The grid isn't quite as flashy as it might be, outside the theme, but it holds up OK. I liked EYEBALL, and I especially liked it as a symmetrical counterpart to HAUNTED (43D: Spirit-filled?). Very timely for spooky season—HAUNTED EYEBALL! That's the trick in "trick or treat" ... in case you were considering not giving kids CANDY this Halloween... (50D: The treat in "trick or treat").


Perhaps because the theme ran so easy, the non-theme clues felt like their difficulty was ratcheted up all over, and yet that didn't make the puzzle much harder. Lots of ambiguity (What kind of "surfer" in 15A: Surfer's wish? Which meaning of "digital" (or "number") is at work in 31A: Digital number? etc.). I had the most trouble in the middle, the exact middle, with OAR (37A: Boating noun and verb) crossing COST (33D: Damage, so to speak) and YEAHS (which seemed like they might also be YESES) (29D: Hearty affirmations). But as trouble goes, it wasn't much. My favorite error of the day was when I thought that FDR purchased the first U-BOAT! (40D: F.D.R. purchased the first one => E-BOND). I also had the cow as a MOO-MOO instead of the more formal MOO-COW (49A: Farm animal, so to speak). I only know "haymaker" as a kind of punch (fist punch, not drink punch), so the fact that there are literally "haymakers" that make BALEs (not hay?), well that was news to me (57D: What a haymaker makes). My only clue complaint today involves APPT (28D: Book it: Abbr.). The "[Blank] it!" variety of clue only works in non-abbreviated form, and it only works with a "!" on the end. So ... [Beat it!] for DRUM or [Run for it!] for OFFICE, those work. When you add the "Abbr." part, somehow the snappiness and energy of this clue type just dies. And the lack of a "!" on the clue is against convention, which seems unfair. So the clue is both ill-advised (for abbrs.) and poorly written (or proofread). 


Paris is the dude who kinda sorta started the Trojan War by abducting Helen (who was the bribe that Aphrodite offered Paris in exchange for his choosing her as the winner of the world's stupidest beauty contest) (see "The Judgment of Paris"). So yes, Paris's city was Troy, thus [City of Paris?] = TROY. You have TEN fingers (probably), and fingers are "digits," so that's why 31A: Digital number? makes sense. A MAID knocks on many hotel/motel room doors (10A: One knocking on many doors). As for Do or DYE (13D: Do or ___ (hair salon name)), I don't know why hair salons are so prone to punny names (Shear Madness!) but they are. Usually, the puns are easy to understand (Curl Up and Dye is probably the most famous). But I saw one in Ithaca this past week called "Hair A-Phayre" and ... I'm at a loss as to what the pun is. I mean, obviously it’s “Hair Affair,” but what is Phayre? Do people “phayre” their hair? Is the owner named "Phayre"? If I had hair, I probably wouldn't go to "Hair A-Phayre," but I might go to "Hair A-Phair," on the off chance that they played a lot of Liz Phair, or maybe Liz Phair worked there between gigs. "Exile in DYE-ville," is that something? 


My Gen-X roots are showing, so I'll sign off now. See you later.

Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld 

P.S. the wrong answers for the FDR clue that people are posting in the Comments are hilarious. FDR! He bought the first ... E-BIKE! The first issue of EBONY! What a collector! (Keep those errors coming!) [Update: he seems also to have purchased the first E-BOOK *and* the first T-BIRD!]

P.P.S. there seem to be a lot of people who don't the "A-a-a-and ... SCENE!" clue (1A). Conventional theater-speak (particularly improv-speak) for when the scene being performed is over.

[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]

130 comments:

Adam12 5:39 AM  

I had a hard time parsing PLACEPLACEAT until I rationalized the phrase was really two PLACES, AT “once” rather than “at one time”.

Enjoyed the puzzle.

Conrad 6:01 AM  


Any Thursday without a rebus is a good Thursday.

Overwrites:
1A: SCore before SCENE
5D: EYEover before EYEBALL
49A: @Rex MOOmOo before MOOCOW
59Dx61A: PaT for "Stroke" x SaND, as something a golfer would regretting hitting

DavidP 6:04 AM  

I was convinced FDR purchased the first issue of Ebony magazine.

Taffykun 6:08 AM  

Hair Affair - but you knew that - right?

Anonymous 6:11 AM  

The question is why it’s spelled that way

JJK 6:39 AM  

I enjoyed this, and got the theme pretty much right away when it was clear that “two birds with one stone” didn’t fit, and also that the first letter was a B. I also had some trouble with PLACEPLACEAT because of the AT being a little odd for the clue and also because I can’t ever remember the darn name of those darn tree creatures in Tolkien no matter how many times they appear in the puzzle (orc, ork, ert, no ENT!) I also had trouble with INSANE for “off the hook, so to speak”.

BITTENSHYSHY was my favorite themer.

SouthsideJohnny 7:08 AM  

Well, I finished the entire grid and still don’t get the clue for SCENE - it’s got to be staring me right in the face as Rex didn’t even give it a mention - feel free to show me the light on that one.

This probably says more about me than I would care to know - I had no problem with MOO COW, ELSIE and the TONKA trucks. Unfortunately I don’t know my ORTs from my ENTs, who HANS Gruber is and thanks to OFL for the Helen, TROY and Paris knowledge drop.

The theme was really good - just enough of a brain teaser to make it interesting, yet not so gimmicky that it overwhelms the solving experience - so congratulations to the constructor for hitting the sweet spot today.

Bob Mills 7:21 AM  

One of the best Thursday puzzles in memory...reasonable theme, in contrast to so many far-fetched efforts in the past. It required imagination, but within reason.

My only problem was trying to reconcile MANMANMANBABY with "Rosemary's Baby," which I mistakenly thought had won the Oscar.

Anonymous 7:27 AM  

Loved this one !

Son Volt 7:30 AM  

Lots of fun all around. Themers were intelligent and nuanced - well clued. At first I blanked on the 3 Men movie - don’t recall ever seeing it. Didn’t know whether it was W BOND or T BOND but the crosses prevailed.

Scruffy the Cat

Trivia trend in the overall fill statistics this week - again if they’re in your wheelhouse it’s fine. Liked the colloquial UP AND AT EM, BE STILL and SO BE IT. MOO COW? Crossword friend AHAB gets an off beat clue today.

HAUNTED

Enjoyable Thursday morning solve. Maybe not the typical late week workout but pleasant and clever.

Ian Hunter

Anonymous 7:35 AM  

Really enjoyed it. The theme was obvious but not easy, if that makes sense. I got BIRD BIRD STONE pretty quickly so knew what I was looking for, but the others were more difficult to parse. The two PLACEs came fairly easily, but I had a hard time coming up with AT - agree with Rex that’s a nifty one. BITTEN SHY SHY took a few crosses, since the first two themers conditioned me to look for the repeat at the start of the phrase. And MAN MAN MAN BABY occurred to me, but i had at least three hesitations: I didn’t correctly remember the number of men, I didn’t remember that it was such a big hit, and it feels like it should be MEN three times - since we’re looking at words as units, I would read what’s here as “Three Mans and a Baby” rather than men.

Lewis 7:40 AM  

What I loved most about the theme was that the repeated words were played with differently each time (Hi, @Rex!). Two birds WITH one stone, three men AND A baby, ONCE bitten TWICE shy, and two places at ONE TIME. The theme could have gotten stale quickly if all its answers followed the same pattern. Bravo to John on that!

Playful theme and a host of playful clues – my cup of wordplay nirvana runnethed over.

Little sparks in the grid too. Crossing anagrams NET and TEN, the contradictory cross of INSANE and BE STILL, the rare-in-crosswords five-letter semordnilap (DEETS), and nearby similar pairs (ELSIE/ETSY, ART/ALT).

Congratulations on on your veteran-like debut, John, and thank you for a splendid outing. I come into a Thursday puzzle with a bounce to my step, and I left this one the same way. STAR STAR STAR STAR.

Anonymous 7:49 AM  

I thought it was the first e-bike!

Anonymous 7:51 AM  

Agree not much of a workout but good cluing made it a nice solve.

SSJ: clue for SCENE is the stereotypical film director's call to the cast on set at the start of filming a scene. Not sure they really still do that but if not, lives on in crossworld

Joe R. 7:52 AM  

I’m disappointed that New Math was your word of the day and yet you didn’t include Tom Lehrer’s excellent song about it. https://youtu.be/UIKGV2cTgqA?si=sz4IXWu9y_8sv-IZ

Anonymous 7:54 AM  

Movie directing?

Mack 7:59 AM  

No complaints about Three Mans and a Baby?
Multiple male humans are men. Multiple copies of the word "man" are mans. It's such an awkward entry.

Otherwise I enjoyed the variety and wittiness in the clueing. It made it a fun solve.

Sutsy 7:59 AM  

Great puzzle today!
Don't get 1A: "A-a-a-and... (SCENE)!"?

Anonymous 8:06 AM  

I sincerely guessed EBONY, which I thought was a little weird! Not quite as weird, though, as the 10 seconds in which I wondered whether some proto-computing technology meant that he purchased the first EBOOK.

Anonymous 8:12 AM  

Have to mention Twisted Scissorz Hair Salon in Panama City Beach. I always wonder how many of its clients know Twisted Sister, and was the owner a fan.

grouchonyy 8:15 AM  

I originally wrote in t-bird

Texas Momma 8:19 AM  

I tried to credit FDR with purchasing the first TBIRD. It was only noticing that BIRD was already in the puzzle that clued me in. And not the fact that he was dead before the first T-Bird was produced.

JD 8:19 AM  

Super easy Thursday. Breakfast experiences I've had, Up And Ate 'm. Liked the EBond and Yolks clues (started with Eggs).

Same thoughts as @Mack.

Barbara S. 8:21 AM  

Loved the puzzle. But, grimly, thought FDR purchased the first a-BOmb.

Here's something to lighten the mood --

Uniclues:

1. Well, who did you think did Helen’s makeup?
2. And speaking of The Iliad, this is what Paris should have done instead (and avoided one heck of a mess).
3. Yeah, this is why I get crazier every year.
4. The fabled Queen’s true feelings about her meeting with Solomon?
5. The ultimate relaxation experience provided by the best five-star restaurants.
6. Magic words to make a coke go flat.
7. Pangolin who forgets to RSVP to the bug hunt e-vite.

1. ESTÉE ARISTOTLE
2. SEND TROY ELSIE
3. AGE ADD INSANE
4. SHEBA BAM USE
5. ENTRÉE OTTOMANS
6. “BE STILL, SODA!”
7. ANTEATER E-LAPSE

Katie Sievers 8:50 AM  

What's the deal with Die Hard as a clue for HANS and HARD being the answer for 7 down currency clue? Lame oversight...

pabloinnh 8:54 AM  

Funny, I thought OFL would have a hissy fit about the mixing of cardinal and ordinal numbers (one, once, twice, three) but no. Didn't bother me but a lot of things bother him that don't bother me.

Flew through the top, had a little trouble in the middle untangling HILO and OPRY, and lost some nanoseconds remembering the movie as Two Men and a Baby, for some reason. Oops.

Didn't know HANS Gruber. I guess he's not the silver skates guy.

Hey @M&A-You finally got an answer that was literally MOOCOW easy. Har.

Really enjoyed your Thursday offering, JD. Just Dandy, and thanks for all the fun.

Jim in Canada 8:57 AM  

Another victim of the SAND/PAT crossing, and I'm not even a golfer.

Also another person miffed at MAN rather than MENMENMENBABY.

There was a salon in my hometown called "Bill's Hair-em" - but my fave punny shop name of all time is the florist in NoCal called "Plant Parenthood"

Mack 9:06 AM  

Think of how a director might say, "A-a-a-and... ACTION!"
SCENE is said when the action is done for that section.
Possibly more common in theater, but I don't know anything about movie directing, so it might happen there, too.

A.E. Sop 9:11 AM  

I am having some difficulty with the logic of 20A.

Killing two birds with one stone means achieving two ends through a single action. (i.e., i throw the stone once, and it hits two birds)

Multitasking is performing more than one task or action at a time (to achieve, we assume, multiple ends).

The issue here is how the word "task"is understood - is it the thing to get done (the end), or the thing you do to get the thing done (the action). Without further specification, the meaning can be ambiguous.

But the clue itself clears up any ambiguity by use of the term "multi-tasking," which is is a present participle verb (the thing you are doing) that is commonly understood as meaning doing more than one thing at the same time.

Because of this, I think 20A is flawed.



RooMonster 9:13 AM  

Hey All !
Pretty neat puz, seems it could have maybe run on Wednesday? MY CENT CENT.

Some clues seem to have been toughened up to make them ThursPuz worthy.

Liked the concept. Wondering who will kvetch about the last Themer being an outlier, as the Themers are TWO-ONE, TWO ON(c)E, ON(c)E-TW(ice), but then THREE-A(one).
If you can decipher that!

Wanted tBOND for FDR, what is an EBOND? That sounds like some kind of internet thing. "Man, I really got an EBOND with you! Internet besties!"

Don't go EYEBALLing me. Har.

OK, time to get UP AND AT 'EM.

No F's (two days in a row! That's ILL)
RooMonster
DarrinV


TP 9:17 AM  

I couldn’t figure out what I had wrong. I put SAND for what you’ll regret hitting (“go pound sand”) and then either PET or PAT works for the cross. Anyone else? Or am I wildly mistaken?

Mike Herlihy 9:20 AM  

To those complaining about MANMANMAN - it works the same as BIRDBIRD (and the others). It's not BIRDSBIRDS. The repetition of the words creates the plural.

mathgent 9:28 AM  

I would have preferred MENMENMEN for "Three Men," but no big deal. Absolutely adored the puzzle.

I was teaching seventh- and eighth-grade mathematics when the New Math was coming in the late fifties. I learned a lot of mathematics from those wonderful new texts even though I graduated from a pretty good university with a math major. The kids liked it more than their parents did.

How I understand the expression "Off the hook" has nothing to do with INSANE. I suppose that meaning has something to do with a rap.

Anonymous 9:30 AM  

Can’t puzzle creators forget Estee. There must be more modern cosmetics to reference.

Anonymous 9:43 AM  

They were stretching to be as abstruse as possible - very college town

egsforbreakfast 9:58 AM  


I had some really great sick days in France, but my BESTILL day was July 14.

I don't care a whit if yer friendly-like with my daughters, but I don't think ya should UPANDATEM.

Gotta say that I'm disappointed that 56D (NEON) wasn't clued with regard to NEON Deion Sanders, who is much in the news as the unconventional coach at the University of Colorado.

I'm of mind mind about this puzzle. I'm so on the constructor's wavelength that it's like we're pea pea in a pod. Add in @Rex's take and it's like we're the amigo amigo amigo. But warned warned warned warned is armed armed armed armed, John Donegan. I'll expect more from you after this cool debut.

andrew 10:07 AM  

Way EASY EASY LOVE LOVE…

Carola 10:17 AM  

Quite a bit harder for me than for @Rex, as I just couldn't get into the NW corner until the rest of the grid was about half filled, ESTEE providing no help at all. Finally, a couple more letters for EYEBALL got me what I NEEDed to get the first BIRD, and I saw the theme pattern - and really enjoyed figuring the rest out. PLACE PLACE AT was a real "wait, what?" moment - and then clicked into place. So witty and ingenious! I also liked the parallel ARISTOTLE and UP AND AT 'EM, envisioning the philosopher rousing his 13-year-old pupil Alexander the Great for his morning lesson.

@M&A - I join @pabloinnh in appreciating the tip of the hat you got with MOOCOW.

@John Donegan - A great debut! I look forward to more.

Druid 10:19 AM  

Didn’t you sing “Once Bitten Twice Shy” on your first solo album?

Gary Jugert 10:28 AM  

Very fun.

@Barbara S. 8:21 AM
The wackadoo in me honors the wackadoo in you.

Tee-Hee: MOONS

Uniclues:

1 Propose bovine for beauty swap.
2 İmam bayıldı.
3 Let's confuse old people.
4 Flat Coke.
5 Demonic downsized dozer.

1 SEND TROY ELSIE?
2 OTTOMAN'S ENTREE (~)
3 NEW MATH IDEA (~)
4 BE STILL SODA
5 HAUNTED TONKA (~)

My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: Clean villainous belly button. DR. NO NAVAL OPS.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anonymous 10:37 AM  

I really hate Thursday puzzles. Ugh. I think my brain just can never compute whatever the trick is, and at the same time it doesn’t trust any answer I put in (or think it might be) cause it’s a Thursday and might be tricking me! “The answer I think should go here doesn’t fit - maybe it’s…represented by the black squares? Maybe the theme is that answers are uncompleted? Who knows!”

Just give me trivia and wordplay. This tricky stuff gives me a headache.

Nancy 10:40 AM  

Loved this puzzle to death. Great fun -- sparked by a colorful, lively theme I wish I'd thought of myself.

The non-theme fill is fun too. Loved MOOCOW, and with the cross-referenced ELSIE, it's even better.

Didn't realize that NEW MATH came about because of Sputnik. Now that's an interesting DEET. I wasn't taught NEW MATH; I was taught OLD MATH, and when NEW MATH came along I was out of school and it was incomprehensible to me. Problems that were once duck soup to me became Einsteinian. It's the same way I thought I understood chess notation back in the 50s and 60s and then they changed it and now I don't even understand which piece is being moved. Also there's the matter of how they now predict who will win football games. They used to write things like "49ers favored by 14 points" and now they write some sort of gibberish where I can't even tell which team is favored. (-7.5). (-3). From my Sunday NYT Sports Section. Do you have any idea which team is favored from THAT?

Rant over. This is a wonderfully entertaining puzzle that I thoroughly enjoyed.

JR 10:42 AM  

Another interpretation of digital number : ten is one zero , I.e. the basis for binary computing; digital communications

Steve McCraw 10:42 AM  

I also had U-Boat first. I had "imsafe" for a minute instead of "insane" for "Off the Hook?", but pretty quickly figured it out since half of the Odd Couple is not "feat", LOL. Enjoyed this puzzle. As someone also said, a Thursday without a Rebus is a good Thursday.

Kit_C 10:49 AM  

I looked up Hair-a-Phayre, and the POC for the business is listed as Jane Phayre.

Joseph Michael 10:58 AM  

This was fun to solve. Especially liked PLACE PLACE AT and the optional twist that results in an OTTO MANMANMAN.

My ONLY nit is the clue for 51A. What’s “usually” after a dot is COM not EDU. Or am I missing something?

Liveprof 11:04 AM  

Favorite business name: Cheeses of Nazareth (in Nazareth PA). Also like the jewelry store in MD -- Hi Ho Silver.

Can't figure out A-Phayre either. It's a variant of fayre, for fair, meaning light-haired or beautiful. Maybe it's just a cutesie way to say "hair that is beautiful?"

GILL I. 11:05 AM  

Oh Grateful Dreads. A Thursday where I didn't have to blow my hat off.
I had many doovers, though. 1A was A-a-a and ACHOO. SHEBA saved my bacon; she gave me the beginning of a SCENE that I was going to enjoy.
I did.
BIRD BIRD STONE.....Genius.
I multitask but I'd never hurt a bird while doing it. Hah!
Try for the others because this is fun and clever.
PLACE PLACE AT...Another squeal of delight.
Go back and fill in the surrounding words. Leave the middle and the last one for later.
I did.
I must've stared at 10A waiting for someone to knock on my door. Who might it be? I was knocking on WOOD. Finally, the MAID came to my rescue. Good clue!
YOLK....My favorite part of eggs. Oops.
Conundrum to follow: Yeses....Oh YEAHS. Can OAR be a noun and verb? Not sure how. Put it in and move along.
BITTEN SHY SHY...Another genius, another squeal of delight.
Finish up the downstairs.
I did.
MAN MAN MAN BABY. Will you dance the fandango tango with me?
My other doover was like @Rex. FDR purchased a UBOAT. Guess who saved my bacon.....BITTEN MAN. came to my rescue...the devil's in the DEETS.
This is a debut? MY hat's off to you, John. I hope you come back with more delights.

johnk 11:05 AM  

HARDHARDYOUYOUYOUYOU?

jae 11:05 AM  

Easy. Caught the theme immediately and breezed through this one. No WOEs and lemon before HONEY was it for erasures.

I also recently did the same DOG DARE DOG DARE puzzle that @Rex mentioned which may have helped.

Smooth grid, deja vu theme, fun solve, liked it

Anoa Bob 11:06 AM  

I gave the side EYEBALL to the clue "Noted honky-tonk venue, familiarly" for 30D OPRY. The OPRY is more of a theater or music hall while a honky-tonk is more of a roadhouse or small club, often just outside the city limits of a dry town so alcohol can be served. The OPRY will feature top country music stars while honky-tonks are where aspiring or up and coming acts might be found.

Like some others I think that it should have been MEN MEN MEN BABY. Not sure why it wasn't since it doesn't seem to pose any constructioneering (©M&A) difficulties. Even so, I agree with the general consensus that it was a clever, entertaining theme.

I'm betting that ESTEE Lauder Co. has a few products with ALOE in them.

efrex 11:08 AM  

Zipped through this (fastest Thursday time since I started tracking), with the theme "clicking" in before half the grid was filled. Had "eon" before AGE and "bases" before OASES, which caused the slightest bit of havoc. Can't hear MOOCOW without thinking of the silly song in "Gypsy" ("I've got a moo cow/ a new cow/ a true cow"), but I'll accept having a lesser Styne/Sondheim earworm as a small price to pay for zipping through a Thursday like this. Nicely done, Mr. Donegan!

Liveprof 11:08 AM  

@Kit_C (10:49). Great -- that explains it.

Whatsername 11:19 AM  

Loved this! Easy but not too easy. I decided to make it more difficult by perpetuating the “two” and putting MAN MAN AND BABY at 54 across. Since that made perfect sense - Two Men And A Baby - then I had a mess on my hands where I had AND instead of MAN. Annoying because I saw that film at the theater when it first came out so I should’ve remembered it. Other than that though, I had no problems at all.

Unusual and refreshing and loads of fun to solve. Thank you John!

Anonymous 11:20 AM  

Came here to say this. If I’m multitasking I’m not killing two birds with one stone, I’m killing a bird with a stone and at the same time I’m starting a fire to roast the bird or something.

Ride the Reading 11:20 AM  

Enjoyed this one - took a bit to figure out what was going on with the first themer - thought it would be more than two birds, somehow. Then it finally clicked.

Typed in tossed for 3D - still like that answer better, but it had to come out.

Was working in Chicago and living in NW Indiana when "Exile in Guyville" came out. Wow, did that album get a lot of attention.

Mini theme from "North by Northwest" in there - Elsie is the maid at the Plaza when Thornhill goes looking for Kaplan.

Hack mechanic 11:20 AM  

Fun but struggled with the "at" having never seen the odd couple & thinking off the hook might be "in safe"

Beezer 11:27 AM  

So much to love about this puzzle. I THINK the PPP is fairly low, and what IS there is pretty high quality stuff…ARISTOTLE, TROY, Zora NEALE Thurston, and I’ll even throw in MOOCOW ELSIE.

HANS Gruber was easy for me because that character was played by the late great Alan Rickman. That man was the best villain ever. He also was poverty good as the evil Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. I have never watched a Harry Potter movie but I think Rickman played Snape. I think the Snape character is creepy and thought to be a villain, but ultimately was not.

johnk 11:27 AM  

@RooMonster asks "what is an EBOND?". Here's Wikipedia's answer

Anonymous 11:28 AM  

You can rag on college towns all you like, but you also didn't attempt to explain the pun. My guess is it's just a surname.

jb129 11:29 AM  

I agree with @Conrad that any Thursday without a rebus is a good Thursday.

This was clever. Unfortunately, after completing the puzzle I had to come here to see what it was all about. Impressive, John & nice debut!

Cliff 11:35 AM  

"hay" is not really hay until it is cut dried, and (almost always) formed into bales. Growing in the field, it is just "grass" of various kinds. It is only hay after it is cut, dried, and baled. So someone, or some machine that makes hay is actually making bales.

Cliff 11:38 AM  

My wrong answer for what FDR bought (I only had the B in place) was A-bomb. A horrible answer, I know. But then, he did buy it.

Elision 11:48 AM  

My guess is that it's just a weird spelling, because people don't understand wordplay anymore.

Anonymous 11:48 AM  

The dashes in “A-a-a-and…” messed up the pronunciation for me. I read those as being separate syllables, and so like, “A[h]-a[h]-a[h]-ACHOO!” rather than a drawn out, “Aaaaaaaand.”

Anonymous 11:51 AM  

T-Bird for me

Anonymous 11:55 AM  

Jane E. Phayre

Anonymous 11:57 AM  

Having lived there for 10 years, I’m certainly not just “ragging on college town”. I think they thought “F” so let’s use “”Ph”, “air” so let’s use “ayre” ….. Maybe they even briefly considered “Hare”

Kirk 12:08 PM  

@Barbara S

Fellow Canuck here, btw

I loved your uniclue #2, featuring ELSIE the Trojan COW!

bocamp 12:16 PM  

Thx, John; just right for a good Thurs. workout! 😊

Med (altho, felt tougher).

Very poor start in the NW, with only ESTEE falling.

Was all over the PLACE on this one, finally getting back to the NW to finish up.

Learned something about SHEBA; thot she was from Ethiopia.

Very enjoyable challenge. Liked it a lot! :)
___
Peace 🕊 🇺🇦 ~ Compassion ~ Tolerance ~ Kindness, Freudenfreude & a DAP to all 👊 🙏

Anonymous 12:22 PM  

I only had the B on my first read of the FDR clue, so I pencilled in U-BOAT, thinking, "I dunno, maybe he made a sale with the Germans before the war?"

Carola 12:24 PM  

@Beezer - Alan Rickman's embodiment of the enigmatic Professor Snape is worth sitting though all 7 DVDs, even if (I think) one isn't necessarily a Harry Potter fan. Honestly, I was lukewarm about him before, but no more. For me, he and Emma Watson as Hermione Granger make the series.

Whatsername 12:25 PM  

Re the MAN/MEN debate, I think MAN maintains consistency with two of the other themers which are also singular. They don’t say BIRDS BIRDS or PLACES PLACES.

@@Anon Bob: I had the same reaction to OPRY. It’s no honky-tonk but I interpret it as a venue where a lot of former honky-tonk acts have been performed.

@Beezer (11:27) I was also a big fan of Alan Rickman. One of my favorites was in Quigley Down Under with Tom Selleck, a cowboyish western style adventure set in Australia from 1990. Then in 1995’s Sense and Sensibility, he played a rare good-guy role as the wealthy neighboring estate owner secretly in love with one of the daughters. Both good films which I recommend if you’ve never seen them.

Rene-David 12:45 PM  

I’m sorry, but my brain rebels in full force at “boating noun and verb.” Nope. I know what they want, but I’m not filling it in. Nope.

Yes, I understand that some dictionaries might consider “to oar” as a verb, but I’ve never, in a life spent around such things heard anyone (other than lubbers and infants) actually heard it so used. One ROWS with an OAR. If I heard someone say they had been “oaring around the lake” I’d assume it was their first time on a boat and/or that they were dangerously senescent.

jberg 12:56 PM  

SCENE was my first entry, mainly because of the way "and" is drawn out. It's interesting to see all the different interpretations (theater or movies, before or after). I've seen it in something -- could have been a play or a movie, but it was about making a movie -- where it was used to start a scene. When I was younger, the phrase one heard was "lights, camera,.....action!"

I think I have complained every time the puzzle has used "oar" as a verb; at least they're making a point of it here. I guess the dictionary allows it, so I'll shut up--but I'll still cringe.

We're leaving later today to visit my step-daughter in Chincoteague, so I won't be back until Tuesday, probably. Happy weekend to all, and my thoughts to all those in Lewiston.

David Brown 1:06 PM  

Between ELSIE, "once bitten, twice shy," and "Three Men and a Baby," this was a very Gen-X-friendly grid with a ton of fills that this younger-ish millenial had never heard before...

Bbb 1:25 PM  

Also fell into the PAT/SAND trap. PET/SEND are better answers, yes, but better cluing would be... better.

Anonymous 1:27 PM  

Enlightening! -20A

Anonymous 1:45 PM  

With all the music references today, how could you leave out

https://youtu.be/Bz61YQWZuYU?feature=shared

mathgent 1:50 PM  

I loved Alan Rickman. I've seen Die Hard several times (but only one of the Harry Potters). I also saw him in Private Lives on Broadway. Haven't seen many of his movies but he was great in the ones I've seen except one. Playing Emma Thompson's husband in Love, Actually.

okanaganer 1:53 PM  

I'm with Barbara S that FDR bought the first A BOMB. Then Truman used it. And like TP I regretted hitting SAND.

@Joseph Michael, they mean: when you see EDU it's usually after a dot. Not that when you see a dot, EDU is usually after it. (That was tricky to phrase!)

I really thought it should be UP 'N AT 'EM rather than UP AND AT 'EM.

We finally had our first frost here in the south Okanagan!

[Spelling Bee: Wed 0; Tues -1, missing this 5er.]

gregmark 2:29 PM  

I had a sub-30 Thursday in my sights, but I sabotaged myself by placing ETC at 51A (which makes no sense as that comes *before* the dot). But that only cost me a minute to work out.

Alas, my travails had only begun.

Not knowing enough Hawaiian locations and since ART sub-genre didn't exactly make zero sense, I had HIRO instead of HILO. That added another minute.

Finally, like many others, I fell into the aforementioned SAND + PAT trap, added three minutes and landing my solve at 32:46.

Frustrating. But still a good puzzle.

Anonymous 2:30 PM  

Phayre is the last name of the owner.

Eniale 2:40 PM  

Yeah, yeah, I know it's an easy Thursday puz, but it's the first one I've managed without a DNF for a very long time. when I actually get the idea, there's cause for celebration. And the crosses for SHEBA and HANS helped a lot. I had some idea that the Queen had travelled from some place like Abbysinia...

Beezer 3:20 PM  

Good to see the Alan Rickman love.

@GILL.I…I ALSO thought ACHOO at first! (Lol, great minds sneeze alike) Luckily I still left 1a blank. Just a hunch. I bet you did also.
And speaking of sneezes…have you ever known people who do ridiculously “petite” sneezes? Given mine…I have to believe they really are NOT subduing it. Sheesh. I wish I had petite sneezes!

Beezer 3:26 PM  

Oh. And a p.s. to say I hope @weezie returns (and that things are ok) as well as @LMS. @Loren…I know that usually when you post you have the time to convey your brilliant mind (you don’t “phone it in”) but MAYBE let us know if things are ok…with your mom and otherwise. ❤️

CDilly52 3:54 PM  

My absolute favorite was BIRD BIRD AT. Sheer construction genius. So literal: BIRD two times with AT just one time. This entire puzzle made me so happy! Kudos John Donegan.

Sure, we have seen this many times but this one was done by repeating the necessary word in the full squares. I didn’t get caught thinking that the word repetition would be a standard rebus because my solve took me to the bottom half of the puzzle first.

For some reason, my brain just didn’t allow any whoosh until MOOCOW. Reading on across that line, scoping out the Downs as I worked, I got BETS, OASES, EDU and LOP and immediately had some success with some guessing. I easily completed the SE block because OASES gave me ELAPSES and SO BE IT which, added to PYRES and Shezam! my first theme answer ends with BABY. Reading the movie clue I knew exactly what the answer had to be and that the large number of squares indicated that the usual rebus was not making an appearance.

With that intel, I quickly figured out that we had too many squares for a “regular” rebus but too few to get the whole title into the grid. Because immediately before BABY, I already had an AN, I had to rethink whether we were actually going to have the whole title. Nope. Just didn’t fit because I was certain all my answers in the SE corner were correct which in turn verified that we weren’t using the entire title. That revealed the trick and the rest of the puzzle was just pure fun.

I especially enjoyed remembering NEW MATH. As the first generation (victim?) of that curriculum, I remember listening to all the chat at home (in a house full of teachers) antecedent to its introduction. Those were such exciting years, from Sputnik on though the Apollo program. I was never a good math student but space exploration excited me. Such fertile ground for my very active imagination! Me earliest “viewing” experience was standing outside in the alley between my house and Mrs. Lewis’s using my thumb and first finger as demonstrated on the “Today” show to keep my eyes on the right place in the sky to find and track the movement of the satellite Echo I. It looked just like a star, but once I figured out how to hold my hand once I saw the satellite, I was truly in awe being able to see the movement and watch what looked like a tiny twinkling star move slowly across the night sky.

That experience created an aerospace fan. If I had had a better attitude and better teachers I might have had more success with mathematics and gone deeper into the sciences. To this day though, I enjoy following space exploration thanks to my husband’s avid interest in astronomy, his degree in math but mostly his true gifts as a teacher. He lit the learning fires for his most math-averse students, several of whom were among the many former students (math and music) who so kindly communicated their appreciation of his teaching skill to me after his passing. We need to attract, train, and provide wonderful learning facilities and materials for exceptional teachers in this country.

Whew, sometimes I am amazed at where the daily puzzle takes my thoughts. This wonderful offering made my day. I eagerly look forward to Mr. Donegan’s next.

Liveprof 3:57 PM  

A small Alan Rickman movie was Snowflake with Sigourney Weaver. Only scored 65% on Rotten Tomatoes but it was beautiful and moving, IMO.

Anonymous 3:58 PM  

It's an improv thing.

https://witdc.org/ensembles/and-scene/

Brad 4:13 PM  

I also put T-Bird very proudly

Brad 4:16 PM  

Northwest was difficult for me. Desperate straits is need? Okay. Also had "buy pot" for joint liability. Thought that was clever.

Finer points are details, but DEETS really means information. Phone number, location. Not something subtle.

Otherwise cute puzzle.

Anonymous 4:31 PM  

I love it when my home town shows up! Hilo, Hawaii, home of the Merrie Monarch festival

Trina 5:56 PM  

Agree that OAR is not a verb!

But otherwise loved the puzzle.

I was totally hung up on the misdirect clue SLICE but put the puzz down and when I picked it up later it fell into place.

Anonymous 5:58 PM  

Ten is digital as in ones and zeroes digital. 10.

okanaganer 6:01 PM  

Joining the Allan Rickman film love-in, I would add Bottle Shock to the list. A European wine expert discovers California wines and tries to introduce them to the world.

Anonymous 6:19 PM  

@ Anoa Bob

THANK YOU from the Nashville native!

The OPRY can be defined by many terms and clues related to country music and bluegrass, but it's simply not a honky tonk.

Breakfast Tester 6:25 PM  


I truly considered that FDR bought the first Edsel, until I realized he would have done so posthumously. 🚙

Anonymous 6:25 PM  

I liked digital number for 1-0 as in binary code. Rex’s is better, though

ghostoflectricity 6:57 PM  

The inimitable Tom Lehrer on the New Math:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

Anonymous 7:15 PM  

Huh?
Three Men and a Baby is the title of the movie referred to. How do you represent this title using the trick in the puzzle. MAN MAN MAN BABY simple. Nothing wrong with it

Anonymous 7:50 PM  

The two FDR guesses are INSANE!!

Anoa Bob 7:54 PM  

@Anon 6:19, grew up not far from Nashville (Warren Co.) and have visited a few honky-tonks over the years. They don't always have live music and they are not just in the South. Here, let The Rolling Stones explain further: Honky Tonk Women.

@CDilly52 3:54 were you multitasking when you wrote the first paragraph of your comment? :-)

paulfahn 7:56 PM  

Why is there a “?” on the Paris clue? There’s no punning, it’s a valid straightforward clue.

Anonymous 9:16 PM  

Agree totally, as the puzzle was asking for a literal number count of a specific word. It should have been “men, men, men, baby” as the answer.

Anonymous 9:46 PM  

Same here. Held me up for what felt like eternity (actually, more like 15 min to my average)

Anonymous 10:17 PM  

C’mon. He definitely bought the first U-boat

Giz 10:54 PM  

Hair afire, anyone?

Anonymous 11:47 PM  

OFL, we almost never see (hush hush) eye-to-eye, but your Liz Phair reference/salon pun def elicited a solid salute of approval today (not that you’re looking for it). Music taste is unquestioned.

Fun fact (you may already know): the lead singer of Kajagoogoo is Limahl, who recorded the eponymous theme/single to The NeverEnding Story. Still remember that wild portrait of his on the back of the 45 sleeve.

(Just a little GenX solidarity…blew my mind when I learned that connection as a kid. Maybe second only to the moment I connected the dots that Belinda Carlisle had been one of the Go-Go’s) ^_^

Little too easy for a Thursday, but overall enjoyed the puzzle, as well.

Anonymous 12:07 AM  

I detested this puzzle! I solved it from the crosses but had no idea what those weird long answers meant. Guess I needed a revealer to spell it out for me. Am I the only person who thought this too clever to be fun?

Mark V 12:08 AM  

I had the exact same problem with that clue.

Anonymous 12:25 AM  

Probably no one will see this but :
Clue. City of Paris.
would be too ambiguous for a Thursday is when most trick clues have a question mark etc.

Anonymous 12:58 AM  

Bales… of hay… Well, you’re still a polymath 😂

JNKMD 11:12 AM  

Sand x pat...me too.

Liam 4:08 PM  

I had “achoo” for a long time for “a-a-a…”. I know it doesn’t worm with the and, but it made sense at the time.

Anonymous 6:00 PM  

+1

Anonymous 3:38 AM  

It means the place you will usually find the abbreviation EDU is after a dot. Not that the abbreviations after a dot are usually EDU.

kitshef 4:19 PM  

Wonderful puzzle.

Anyone who ended with PaT and SaND - that counts as a successful solution as both work with the clues. Bad editorship there.

+1 for Alan Rickman love.

Don't think the clue for TEN works.

Anonymous 9:51 AM  

I guess they were looking for menmenmenbaby?

Anonymous 9:59 AM  

T-Bill?

Geome 11:23 AM  


"ONCE UPON a time and a very good time it was there was a moocow coming down along the road and this moocow that was down along the road met a nicens little boy named baby tuckoo. . . ."

'A Portrait of the Artist' - James Joyce

spacecraft 11:28 AM  

BET I know @M&A's "fav MOO_COW easy clue" this time!

Started in the NE and knew we were dealing with some form of "two birds with one stone," but how to fit it in the length given was another matter. Eventually I got the IDEA, with BITTENSHYSHY. That made things a whole lot easier.

'87 must've been a slow year, if THAT movie was the top grosser.

How exactly does "off the hook" translate to INSANE?? Ya got me on that one.

Other clues were similarly "off," so I wouldn't call this one easy. Maybe medium. Par.

Wordle bogey--despite getting four (!) yellows on guess #2.

Anonymous 2:13 PM  

😏

Anonymous 5:18 PM  

I literally remember the new math from when I was in grade school. I also went out in my backyard to see Sputnik and Echo. That means I am at least this many 🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚🤚 years old.

Waxy in Montreal 5:33 PM  

with all the other misdirection in this fun Thursday puzzle, I had the most trouble connecting 42D. Slice, e.g. with SODA. Sprite I'm very familiar with...but had to Google to find out that Slice was/is also a soda.

Thought that 41D. Curriculum overhaul triggered by the Sputnik crisis would be SCIENCE rather than NEWMATH - I had just started High School when Sputnik launched and remember clearly being strongly "encouraged" to opt for science courses thereafter where choices existed.

Wondering if your average polymath is good at NEWMATH?

@Spacey - only way I can see "off the hook" being associated with INSANE is when someone is acquitted of a criminal charge on the grounds of insanity.

Anonymous 6:34 PM  

Nice one John Donegan. Keep ‘em coming.

Burma Shave 6:36 PM  

SCENE MAID

HONEY, IT's a good BET,
don't BE SO SHY at all,
BABY, BESTILL, let's PET,
ONLY 'til you AND EYEBALL.

--- TROY BOND

Diana, LIW 6:43 PM  

Once I saw the BIRDBIRDSTONE answer, I was UPANDATEM because I figured out it wouldn't be a rebus puz. Hooray! Makes my Thursday.

Yes, I too was surprised that those 3 men and a tyke could be a top-grossing movie of any year. Even with that cast. (Must admit that I never saw it - I'm guessing it's a "aw, isn't it cute when guys try to take care of kids?" kinda movie.

Gotta go go be in at least two places...

Diana, LIW

rondo 7:14 PM  

Maybe not THEFUNTHEFUN as usual, but better than a rebus. The rare occasion for a true YEAH BABY, and nobody there to claim it.
Wordle par.

Anonymous 5:31 PM  

Someone gave me a New York Times crossword puzzle subscription, so I've been going through past puzzles. I realize the odds of anyone seeing this comment are probably next to zero...but just in case. I came here expecting someone besides me knew the expression as "once BURNED, twice shy." Being "burned" and "bitten" have the same number of letters, and the theme was pretty easy to see early on, I scribbled in "bitten," and struggled and struggled and struggled with everything else in the area. Am I the only person who knows the phrase as "once burned twice shy"?

Anonymous 10:51 PM  

That is, I scribbled in "burned," not "bitten." Really threw me off, but mostly I'm just curious, am I the only one who has ever heard the phrase as "once burned twice shy"?

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