Literally, "equal legs" / THU 4-17-25 / Horseshoe enthusiasts? / Toward that place, quaintly / Large cask for beer or wine / Pickle or asparagus unit / Small, embedded program / 2013 movie co-starring Scarlett Johansson in which she is never seen / Refurbish, as an old piano

Thursday, April 17, 2025

Constructor: Ilan Kolkowitz and Shimon Kolkowitz

Relative difficulty: Easy


THEME: You can't see the FOREST for the TREES (64A: What you can't see due to the 38-Across in this puzzle? / 38A: See 64-Across) — images of trees appear in six black squares—those six squares hide letters necessary for the completion of six Across answers to which they are adjacent:

Theme answers:
  • (F)LOTUS (25A: *Abigail Adams or Eleanor Roosevelt, informally)
  • ELM(O) (29A: *Red denizen of Sesame Street)
  • (R)ASH (39A: *Hasty)
  • FIR(E) (45A: *"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a ___ to be kindled": Plutarch)
  • (S)PEAR (47A: *Pickle or asparagus unit)
  • APPLE(T) (52A: *Small, embedded program)
Also!!!: all the seemingly "wrong" theme answers (that is, the answers as they appear in the grid, minus the tree-letters) are, in fact, types of TREES: LOTUS, ELM, ASH, FIR, PEAR, APPLE] [!!!!!!] 

Word of the Day: SCHWEPPES (31D: Big name in soft drinks) —

Schweppes (/ʃwɛps/ SHWEPSGerman: [ʃvɛps]) is a soft drink brand founded in the Republic of Geneva in 1783 by Johann Jacob Schweppe; it is now made, bottled, and distributed worldwide by multiple international conglomerates, depending on licensing and region, that manufacture and sell soft drinks. Schweppes was one of the earliest forms of a soft drink, originally being regular soda water created in 1783. Today, various drinks other than soda water bear the Schweppes brand name, including various types of lemonade and ginger ales.

The company has held the British royal warrant since 1836 and was the official sponsor of Prince Albert's Great Exhibition in Hyde Park, London in 1851.

• • •


Well I *could* see the FOREST for the TREES, pretty early, but that didn't keep me from enjoying this puzzle. The visual gimmick made the trick transparent (telling you exactly where the "hidden" letters were going to be); it also made the puzzle feel more Wednesday than Thursday in terms of difficulty. But the originality of the concept and the consistently entertaining and mostly clean grid kept the puzzle from being either boring or annoying. You really just need the first two tree letters (F, O) to see what's going on, and if you're working top down (as most of you do, right?), then they don't take long to appear today. I got ELM(O) first then (F)LOTUS, and that was that:


I ran into the TREES part of the revealer not long after:


[Note: extremely ironically, I never saw the fact that all the themers, as they are written in the grid, are actually trees themselves; that is, I couldn't see the trees for the forest!—this tree-name feature takes this puzzle from good to great, imo]

There is some visual wonkiness. Not that fond of the layout of FOREST and TREES—the placement of those words feels arbitrary (esp. TREES), and it's always nicer to have a full, snappy phrase than ... whatever this is (a phrase I have to complete in my mind). But this may be the best way to execute this concept, as the full phrase ("can't see the forest for the trees") is cumbersome, so the puzzle focuses on just the relevant parts (FOREST, TREES). Makes sense. I don't mind that the trees are not symmetrical. Forests are not symmetrical, after all. Looks good with the trees kind of grouped but scattered. There's no real logic to which answers the tree-letters go with—they only work in one direction. Why? Just 'cause. Primarily because the grid would've been way, Way harder to build if those tree-letters had to work for all adjacent answers, Across and Down. I admire the fact that the puzzle seemed to know its limits and stay inside them, making the overall solve pleasant, smooth, enjoyable. Try to do more with it, and you get into "look at me!" / stunt-puzzle territory—a puzzle that's architecturally impressive, but a drag to solve.

["But honeychild, I've got my doubts..."]

There were a few rough spots, and a few potential solving pitfalls. I'm not sure everyone is going to be familiar with ACTIN / TUN (5A: Cellular protein / 7D: Large cask for beer or wine). Those are both fairly specialized terms. I knew TUN, but not ACTIN, though ... ACTIN sounded right. Familiar. That may be due to the probably unrelated athlete's foot remedy, "Tough actin' Tinactin," but whatever gets you there gets you there! My daughter is home for a few weeks and solving the puzzles I print for her, and so, having seen the places she has found challenging, I'm thinking about what parts might give her (a reasonably intelligent casual solver in her mid-20s) trouble [note: yesterday, like a good many of you, she wiped out at HIRT/REOS; and like me, she had ANESUP (instead of ACES UP) for that damn solitaire game, only she couldn't see how to fix it]. I'm betting ACTIN/TUN is one of those places. The other one might be MNEME, lol, not the loveliest-looking Muse (at least not on the page—I'm sure in person she's a knockout) (37A: Muse of memory). You can infer at least the MNEM- part from the word "mnemonic," but that answer is still likely to be a toughie for many. But the crosses there are all fair. I have a hard time seeing anything else that is likely to give an experienced solver trouble. 


The fill today is bouncy and pretty. I'm realizing just now that I never even saw "USE THE FORCE!" (!!?). That's how easy the puzzle was—that entire long Down just got filled in via crosses. Oooh, I'm also noticing that the grid is asymmetrical. I could see that the trees were asymmetrical, but wow, the whole grid, cool. I like the symmetry restriction in crosswords, but if there's a thematic reason to break it, go ahead and break it! ISOSCELES is a cool-looking word (4D: Literally, "equal legs"), as is SCHWEPPES (9 letters but just one syllable!). I like that "USE THE FORCE" runs through EMPIRES (since the Empire, famously, strikes back in the second "Star Wars" movie) and I like that (F)LOTUS sits atop SPOUSES (yes, it's "ESPOUSES," but I'm still not technically wrong) (if you have trouble finding a husband or wife irl, do you settle for an E-SPOUSE? God I hope not, that sounds sad ... wait, was that the plot of HER? (22A: 2013 movie co-starring Scarlett Johansson in which she is never seen). I never saw it). The only unsightly part of the grid is EES SST, and those answers are tucked well out of the way in the far SE, so I didn't mind them much. 

[15A: Mars with bars]

Bullet points:
  • 42A: What three is (CROWD) — not normally a fan of putting the article in the answer, but the answer here really Really wants to be "A CROWD." Three is A CROWD. I got it easily, but I might've made a little face.
  • 46A: Eliot protagonist (MARNER) — so, George Eliot and Silas MARNER. My dad was a physician, and not much of a fiction reader, possibly because he was forced to read Silas MARNER in high school and haaaaaaated it (and to this day, despite having enjoyed other Eliot novels, I haven't touched Silas MARNER).
  • 56A: Toward that place, quaintly (THITHER) — let it not be said that I can't handle some quaintness. I can handle precisely this much quaintness. THITHER weirdly made me smile. When you teach early modern literature, you build up a tolerance for certain quaintnesses.
  • 9D: What a bad assistant might be (NO HELP) — not sure why I like this answer so much, but I do. Hard to make six-letter answers stand out in a good way, but this one did, for me.
  • 34D: "___ the Doughnut," start of a children's book series ("ARNIE") — wow, what? I know Pete's a Pizza, but not ARNIE the Doughnut, to say nothing of the ... series? ... he's a part of. "Arnie the Doughnut was [Laurie] Keller's third book. Released in April of 2003 by Henry Holt Books for Young Readers, it is the story of an anthropomorphic chocolate frosted sprinkle doughnut named Arnie, who changes his fate after being purchased by Mr. Bing." (wikipedia).
  • 36D: Horseshoe enthusiasts? (FARRIERS) — these are literal shoers of horses. Because of the "?" I really thought the answer was going to be ... whatever the word is for someone who studies (horseshoe) crabs.
  • 46D: John ___, author of "Annals of the Former World" (MCPHEE) — an exquisite writer. Every time he has a piece in the New Yorker, I read it word for word. I keep meaning to read more of his books. But then I keep meaning to read lots of things, sigh.
  • 45A: *"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a ___ to be kindled": Plutarch ("FIRE")  — forgot that this was a themer and thought the answer was actually "FIR" (like maybe you used the tree to start the fire?). Kinda cool that all the trees in the grid appear to be FIR trees (even though, again, FIR is not an actual answer in this puzzle)
  • 42D: Like one who might have to hoof it (CARLESS) — I want to hate this answer, but then I wish much more of the world was CARLESS, so I have decided to like this answer (because "hoof it" is a phrase I associate exclusively with city walking, my first thought for this answer was CABLESS).
Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld

[Follow Rex Parker on BlueSky and Facebook]

123 comments:

Bob Mills 6:03 AM  

Finished it with a couple of cheats, but the music didn't sound for some reason. Maybe I need a system that can separate the trees from the forest, and also provide revealers for clues marked with asterisks. Not a pleasant Thursday morning for me.

Dione Drew 6:08 AM  

very fun!! theme made me smile. and i didn't even realize the covered letters spelled forest... that was a treat after I was done.
easy going except that bottom middle part!

Anonymous 6:15 AM  

Geez, seems like at least every other day there's a rap song clue- Is that because the names are just great for crossword puzzles?

Rug Crazy 6:25 AM  

Just WOW. Finished, just "got it" sort of

Conrad 6:26 AM  


Good call, @Rex, staying away from Silas MARNER. I had the same experience as your Dad.

Easy-Medium. I kinda struggled until I reached the second half of the revealer at 38A. Because I had enough crosses to know it had to be TREES, that gave me FOREST at 64A and from that I figured out what the tree figures represented. I also ass-u-med that the magic letters would be counterclockwise instead of top-to-bottom, so I had APPLE(s) in mind at 52A, which didn't fit the clue but looked okay. It wasn't until I got to (S)PEAR at 47A that I realized the error.

Overwrites:
My 2D December baby was Chris before she was CAROL
vat before TUN for the cask at 7d
ExPOUndS before ESPOUSES at 30A. It didn't fit the clue but it fit the crosses.
UhNO before UMNO at 44A

WOEs:
ACTIN at 5A
ARNIE the Doughnut at 34D
I must have run into MNEME (37A) before, but it was a total blank
John MCPHEE (46D)

SouthsideJohnny 6:44 AM  

I new ELMO was the answer that I was looking for - it never occurred to me that the trees were just going to cover one letter (I thought FIR, ELM, or even TREE would be part or the theme answers). Even with ELMO (the ELM didn’t help with the TREE confusion that early in the solve either), I stuck with it, but the theme never registered, so a big fat DNF for me today.

I will confess to being somewhat disappointed when I saw Rex explain it - how could I overlook / overthink something so simple, which is too bad - it could have been fun.

Klazzic 6:46 AM  

I thought this puzzle stunk. Horrible cluing, dumb theme.
,

Son Volt 6:58 AM  

Amusing - and as the big guy explains - early week easy. Now if the verticals could have been incorporated into the hidden letters we would have had a great one.

A FOREST

Overall fill tried to be splashy and succeeded for the most part. THE FORCE was a top notch long and I liked SOLACES and DREAM OF. Backed into DUPLO. Butthead hilariously riffed on SEMINAL for an entire episode once.

Mike Nesmith’s original version

Enjoyable Thursday morning solve.

Mark Lanegan

Anonymous 7:00 AM  

The black squares are in the shape of a tree too, isn’t that neat

Andrew Z. 7:01 AM  

I’m surprised Rex didn’t mention the black squares in the middle and bottom depict a tree.

Stuart 7:02 AM  

Really clever and fun!

Andy Freude 7:11 AM  

In the ninth grade I had to read Silas Marner and hated it. Then my family moved, I transferred to a new school, and in tenth grade had to read . . . Silas Marner. Hated it all over again.

Many, many years later, I read Middlemarch and realized how great a novelist George Eliot was. So much so that I gave Silas Marner another try. It’s brilliant—I loved it!

It was then I realized that great literature is wasted on the young. Every now and then I go back and reread something that was assigned in high school, and I’m always impressed by how much better it is now.

Anonymous 7:12 AM  

Solving in the NYT there were no tree icons for me. Those spots were just normal black squares.

When I finished, the normal black squares where you show trees in your screenshot then were filled with the missing letters.

So had no idea at all what was going on while solving.

Anonymous 7:14 AM  

I think the app is having issues, I finished too but the clock is still running but I can't change any of my answers

Lewis 7:17 AM  

So elegant, having the theme answers each be two words, one a clue to crack, and the other a theme-affirming type of tree.

So original, coming up with this idea in the first place. It’s never been done before. Wow!

So sweet, having the theme echoed by centering the grid with a visual tree.

Such admirable chutzpah, sending a renegade asymmetrical submission to the Times when you’ve never had a puzzle published there before.

Such a lovely touch, sprinkling beauty into the box, with ESPOUSES, MNEME, THITHER, SOLACES, BEARNAISE, ISOSCELES, MCPHEE, ABLOOM, and SEMINAL.

All this in a NYT debut, and what promise it portends. I so hope to see more from you, Ilan and Shimon. This was eye-opening as well as entertaining, and thank you so much. What a boost!

Anonymous 7:18 AM  

Fun puzzle. 23A was poorly clued: Going Back to Cali (an absolute gold-standard classic) by LL Cool J was released 10 years earlier than the clue stated, featured on the Less Than Zero soundtrack. Going Back to Cali (1998) was Notorious BIG.

Lewis 7:20 AM  

I'm guessing I am not alone in confidently filling in BRAND at first for [Mars with bars].

kitshef 7:24 AM  

Fun puzzle.

No trees in my grid, which presumably made the puzzle a bit harder as I did not know where the themers would appear or how many there would be.

Weird placement for the revealer. Given that the grid lacks symmetry anyway, not sure why we don't just add a black square in the bottom row so both FOREST and TREES could go down there. As it is, I hit the TREES clue very early, althought that does not seem to have diminished my enjoyment.

Anonymous 7:40 AM  

Took me quite a while to get LL Cool J since he did NOT sing the 1998 version of Going Back to Cali. He’s responsible for the original song from the 80s. No iteration of the correct answer (Notorious BIG, Big Poppa, Biggie Smalls) would fit!

JJK 7:44 AM  

At first this seemed hard and the cluing very opaque. But as I worked through and figured out some of my wrong entries (chris before CAROL, vat before TUN, FeRRIERS before FARRIERS, wHITHER before THITHER) and saw the theme, things picked up and it was a very satisfying solve. I enjoyed it. A clever and simple theme. My NYT app had no little tree pictures - that would have made the theme too easy I think.

ELM(O) and FIR(E) were gimmes but at first I wasn’t sure if it was a rebus or what. Then I realized they were trees, got the revealers and aha!

Mary Beth 7:48 AM  

If I told the world that my daughter was “reasonably intelligent” she’d kill me. Anyway, apparently I’m not reasonably intelligent because I’d never heard of DUPLO and thought SÃO PAULO was spelled São Paolo. DNF.

Mary Jean Babic 7:55 AM  

Why is it the the NY Times' own Games app, both web and mobile, doesn't show the trees?

Anonymous 7:59 AM  

In Junior High School, I read Silas Marner. But we all called him Mariner so I have to remember his real name.

waryoptimist 8:01 AM  

Easy medium for me , despite getting the theme fairly easily for a change. The theme answers were fairly easy, and ASH and FIR enabled me to fill in the revealers. Well done , Kolkowitz team, even if the final tree shape was a tad asymmetric

Guilty of initial fail on ACTIN/TUN and trouble in NW slowed me. Once I got LLCOOLJ from crosses, the rest filled in quickly.

Rex , a bit perplexed by your comment on FIRS: to me it looks like NONE of the other theme trees are FIRS??!

Content to learn TUN and to be exposed to LLCOOLJ for the first time. Happy and Holy Thursday to all

mmorgan 8:16 AM  

Difficult to impossible with AcrossLite, but they warned us. I thought Mars with bars was BRand (as in candy bars).

Anonymous 8:22 AM  

Very odd. I solve on the NYT app on my iPhone, and the trees were clearly visible.

Anonymous 8:26 AM  

What is SST? 🤔

Anonymous 8:39 AM  

Hey All !
Was trying to figure out the symmetricallity (should be a word!) of the grid. Nothing was working, thought Rex would have some kind of way to tell me, but, turned out to just be asymmetrical. Rather interesting.

I did see right away all the missing letters tree answers were actually TREEs. So the ole brain is still firing some synapses. That's some next level construction, there.

Gave myself a chuckle, thinking the trees looked like Christmas trees. I said, "How is there Christmas trees in my Easter week puz?" Good stuff.

Liked it, different. Some tricky clues, good fill. CRISPED above APPLE is fun.

Was down to two squares, AC_IN/_UN, _TC/_ARRIERS, put in what I believed to be the correct letters, T and F, and got the Happy Music! Was considering an M for MTC/MARRIERS.

Have a great Thursday!

Six F's! (Including the "unseen" one)
RooMonster
DarrinV

pabloinnh 8:43 AM  

No TREES in my printout, alas, as they look pretty cool. Working down the left side I ran into FIR which clue directed me to FOREST , saw that PEAR was another kind of tree, and the conceit became clear. After completion I took the time to see that the covered letters spelled FOREST and felt pretty good about myself.

Names were a help today, especially MARNER and MCPHEE and DUPLO. Had LL something and have at least heard of LLCOOLJ. MNEME made sense but having just some random letters for SCHWEPPES didn't help much. ARNIE the doughnut? Really? And today's spelling challenge was ISOSCELES, which I probably haven't seen since tenth grade geometry.

@Roo--Sao PAULO. Close enough.

Nice medium Thursday, BK and SK. But Kind of missed something, Shoulda Known there were little images involved. Thanks for all the fun.

Liveprof 8:45 AM  

Have you seen my zither?

Thither.

Right, my zither. Have you seen it?

Thither.

Yes. Do you know where it is? My zither.

Thither.

(Continue in this vain until tired.)

Del Maticic 8:46 AM  

I must be too much of a George Eliot fan because my first answer for Eliot protagonist was MAGGIE, the semi-autobiographical girl in The Mill on the Floss. But MARNER makes more sense, even though it's not her best work.

Anonymous 8:49 AM  

Pretty easy today, I got stuck at PAULO/DUPLO because my stupid Italian brain was convinced it should be Paolo.

Greater Fall River Committee for Peace & Justice 8:50 AM  

Two answers that annoyed me, as a person who actually knows things instead of having accumulated lists of crossword answers in the back of my brain. The muse of Memory is MNEMosynE. And the LOTUS, in general, is a water lily, not a tree. Harumph.

Dr.A 8:52 AM  

Same, so irritating. I checked all my answers against Rex’s and they are all correct. No Forest for me!

Dr.A 8:52 AM  

Fun fact, the spelling bee won’t take ACTIN. Very frustrating. Anyhoo, cute puzzle if the app would work right!

Beezer 9:02 AM  

I solved this later than both of you, but the NYT iPad app worked fine. Are you solving it on the online platform?

Nancy 9:05 AM  

I'm very glad I spied Rex's "!!!!!" paragraph on the way down here. I completely missed that all the wrong answers were trees and therefore was coming here to say that I was underwhelmed by the missing single letters F,O,R,E,S,T as a Thursday gimmick. I had seen the trees/forest thing from the get-go, but was hoping for an entire FOREST rebus -- and was therefore disappointed. But the LOTUS, ELM, ASH, FIR, PEAR, APPLE thing puts this puzzle in a whole other category. It's quite clever and brilliantly designed, actually.

The problem, though, is the usual one. The solver -- especially unobservant ones like me -- has no need to even see, much less contend with, those real trees. Were they not there, the solving experience would be pretty much the same.

So that I applaud the accomplishments of the constructors in creating this. It's a lovely piece of work. But my solving experience, alas, just wasn't all that thrilling.

Beezer 9:07 AM  

Middlemarch is a wonderful book! I was okay with Silas Marner as a high school read (he might have reminded me of Heidi’s Grandfather) but Great Expectations really soured me on Dickens for a long time!

Beezer 9:11 AM  

Haha…the only difference between us is that when I filled it in, I was NOT confident! Can’t explain it other than my spidey sense told me it seemed too easy (?)

Anonymous 9:12 AM  

There’s a mistake in this puzzle! LL Cool J released his track (23 across) in 1988. It’s clued here as 1998. Notorious BIG’s version was 1997.

Jeremy 9:12 AM  

My wife's family has a story about how her aunt and uncle were driving through heavily-wooded Oregon/Northern California in the 70s and picked up a hitchhiker. When they dropped him off, he thanked them and they thought they heard him say "may the forest be with you." Turns out, it was George Lucas, it was "May the Force be with you," and that was their first exposure to the Force mentioned in 27D.

Beezer 9:15 AM  

Hmmm. My “official” NYT games app DID show the trees.

Anonymous 9:17 AM  

Me too. All black squares - not a tree in sight,

Mary in NE 9:22 AM  

My printed puzzle didn't have tree symbols in those black squares. I'm glad because I think that would have made it too easy. It did have asterisks by the theme clue numbers so I started figuring out what letters were missing and got FOREST. For me it was an enjoyable puzzle.

Liveprof 9:23 AM  

I once won a bet with a brother-in-law who was convinced that the expression was "can't see the forest 'from' the trees." He was so sure that it cost him $5.

Beezer 9:30 AM  

Wow, I enjoyed this puzzle more than most Thursday offerings. One reason, I’m sure, is the fact that I actually figured out every aspect of the theme during my solve AND used it to help me affirm my answer, ie I THOUGHT there was a computer “thing” called an APPLEt, and the tree symbol “sealed the deal” for me. Eh, I didn’t actually NEED the hidden FOREST letters, but I knew they’d be there. Very sparkly and fun!

In the “know enough, but not enough to be dangerous (to myself)” department….Thank goodness I had no clue about any ‘date discrepancy’ on Going Back to Cali…I already had LL filled in due to downs, and COOLJ went in without further thought.

Nancy 9:33 AM  

What a great story, Jeremy!

Anonymous 9:40 AM  

You use a device that is unable to upgrade to the latest IOS ? That’s my issue anyway.. Paolo/Paulo made me a DNF.

Anonymous 9:48 AM  

I came here to say that

egsforbreakfast 9:54 AM  


Mrs. Egs is so pedi-dexterous that she gardens with a TOESHOE. Course these days were on line so much that we're practically ESPOUSES. Nonetheless, although she's not the First Lady or Second Lady she's still a LOTUS (Lady of the U.S.) to me.

I think FARRIERS is just a fancy word for commuters from Staten Island.

That rapper formed a corporation to shield his assets. It's called OOLJ LLC.

I was discomfited when my granddaughter told me that shoes use Velcro these days. SOLACES are out, I cried?

I'm ACTIN like I'm SETIN here FOREST. UHNO. I can't go another INCH without my STAFF.

Neither of my boys could get last Saturday's clue about a "pool shooter" so I had to tell them "That's a JETSONS."

What a delightful, complicated, multi-level theme! Sure, the solve was actually easy, but I'm just in awe of the minds that produced this. I feel like the constructors must be related in some way. Thanks and congrats on this wonderful debut, Ilan Kolkowitz and Shimon Kolkowitz.

Anonymous 9:55 AM  

Did anyone else hesitate to enter JETSONS as the first ABC color broadcast? (That can't be right! says me.) I believe the regular commenters here refer to discovering an unfamiliar fact as TIL.

Alice Pollard 9:55 AM  

I never saw Star Wars but figured it out USETHEFORCE. The cross of ACTIN/TUN gave me a problem.... how come I have never heard of a simple word like TUN? Really liked this puzzle on many levels .

Teedmn 9:58 AM  

This is a wonderful Thursday puzzle. I didn't find it as easy as Rex did because I didn't notice the tree names for a while. I also didn't notice the FIR tree image in the grid but I did see that the missing letters spelled out FOREST which is way cool.

Three places where I had to pause or write over - vat before TUN, Loom before LIAR and staring at THIT___ and trying to re-spell BEARNAISE as BEARNiaSE because 56A must be THaT something. I finally figured out MCPHEE and THITHER came THITHER.

Thanks, Ilan and Shimon Kolkowitz!

Anonymous 10:01 AM  

My mom dated John McPhee’s brother and I encouraged her to consider marrying him because then I’d get to be related to the amazing John McPhee 😊

Teedmn 10:11 AM  

Hah, I did the same thing (I blame Paolo Pasco) and I've even been to Sao Paulo!

Anonymous 10:14 AM  

I read "Annals" like the Bible. Open up the book to any page and read. Fantastic writer

Anonymous 10:22 AM  

Hip hop is a pretty essential part of American culture here in the year of our lord 2025. It's okay not to love it but be prepared to deal with it in your crosswords forever. I feel the same irritation at any clue/solve that involves the French language, we all have our gaps. In closing, #abandonFrench

kitshef 10:24 AM  

Rex is referring to the little pictures of trees that appear in the black squares and saying they all look like firs.

Whatsername 10:27 AM  

Well, I absolutely loved this! One of the most clever themes I can recall on a Thursday or any other day, and so beautifully presented. Great job of construction Ilan and Shimon, and great fun for me to solve.

I suspected something was UP when I saw the empty grid, but this far exceeded my expectations. I particularly admired the way the theme answers were placed so that it was hard not to get the trick. I first tried a rebus, then realized we were hiding the FOREST in the black squares, which left me feeling oddly disappointed … that’s all there is? Took me until I was finished before I could clearly see the individual TREES. So cleverly done that it becomes an actual visual demonstration of the statement. A reverse demo in my case, as I literally did not see the trees until I had filled in the forest. Absolutely brilliant! Gentlemen, I salute you.

Anonymous 10:28 AM  

Agreed! The Mnemosyne one really threw me.

kitshef 10:35 AM  

Mnemosyne was a goddess, rather than a muse. She was the mother of the nine Olympian muses. Mneme was one of the three muses according to Varro. (There are different numbers of muses, and with different names, according to different authors.)

And yes, there is a LOTUS that is a flowering aquatic plant, but also a lotus tree, again from Greek mythology. The lotus-eaters from the Odyssey were eating lotus trees.

Whatsername 10:35 AM  

Same here. But the asterisks worked fine, and I agree that flagging those squares would have distracted from the experience for me.

Anonymous 10:35 AM  

I have had that happen, the only way is to log in via a web browser and finish the puzzle, then it will be marked complete in the app as well. If you try a browser on your phone, you will have to uninstall the times games app first

Anonymous 10:36 AM  

This puzzle was great! Amazed Schweppes was an answer since we were discussing Schweppes at work following the death of TV game show host Wink Martindale. (Wink was/(is?) a grapefruit soda. (“The sassy one - from Canada Dry! “ )

Birgit Rosenberg 10:44 AM  

I loves finding “Arnie the Doughnut” as a clue. For a while this was in my granddaughter’s top 3 bedtime books.

Whatsername 10:47 AM  

My knowledge of trees is very basic, but where I grew up in mid Missouri, there were LOTUS TREES in our front yard. They were tall and slender with rough bark and exquisite smelling white blossoms which were always covered with bees. I’ve no idea what the scientific name for them is but that’s what they were commonly called.

smalltowndoc 10:48 AM  

I use the iOS app I downloaded onto on my iPad, and the trees were there. On the other hand, my app doesn’t play music after solving, like others have mentioned. I’m guessing there’s more than one app for the NYTXW. I like my app because it slso has the mini, Wordle, Spelling Bee, etc. Which app are you using?

smalltowndoc 10:53 AM  

Call me a purist, but symmetry is not optional in a NYTXW. So, even though the theme was clever and there were some good non-theme answers (USE THE FORCE), the asymmetry is disqualifying (for what, I’m not sure).

Beezer 11:05 AM  

@smalltowndoc…if you really WANT to hear the obnoxious music, you can go into settings and turn the sound on. My app was “set” to sound, and I turned it OFF!

jae 11:06 AM  

Medium. Definitely a solve first and figure out the theme later kind of puzzle for me.

I did not know ARNIE, MCPHEE, ISOSCELES, and JETSONS (as clued).

Costly erasures - Spell before STAFF and PAOLO before PAULO.

Clever idea nicely executed and without much junk, liked it.

Carola 11:08 AM  

There's a lot going in this pint-sized FOREST! I did see the individually named TREES (catching on at FIR and then going back to appreciate the earlier ones), as well as the big one in the center, but it didn't occur to me to consider which letters the little pine trees were covering up - despite the reveal! I'd say, "Note to self: check all elements of the theme!" except that I've made that note to self so many times and almost always forget.

Enjoyable to solve otherwise, too. I liked TOE SHOES crossing the ISOSCELES "legs" and USE THE FORCE x EMPIRE(S); had fun writing in BEARNAISE and FARRIERS.

Beezer 11:08 AM  

SuperSonic Transport. What the Concorde was.

Anonymous 11:09 AM  

Goin back to Cali is an all-time banger from an artist who is widely recognized in both music and on screen. I know this despite being a middle-aged white lady. Rap is a part of American culture and has been for five decades. I don’t know or care about Big Ten schools or LSU football or whatever, but other people do so it appears all the time. Not everything can or should be catered to a specific demographic’s preferences.

EasyEd 11:13 AM  

The asymmetry in the placement of the trees bothered me at first, but the overall impact of the shape of the tree, the names of the trees, and the hidden forest is IMHO really great. Had no idea about ACTIN, but somewhere out of the blue my brain came up with TUN, and NOHELP brought a big grin. Had started tho with ISOMETRIC so that section took a bit of wrinkling out. Am kinda surprised the NYT crew didn’t do better research on the LLCOOLJ clue but didn’t seem to affect anyone’s solving difficulty.

Beezer 11:18 AM  

I hesitated too because it seemed odd that the first color show on a network would be a cartoon!

Dr Random 11:23 AM  

I saw the wrong answers spelling trees early on (before seeing that the hidden letters spelled FOREST, which I didn’t notice until completing the puzzle), which was a good thing thing since I had never heard of an APPLE(T), but could suss out the tree. It took me a looooong time to commit to LOTUS for that reason, at first thinking “No, can’t be—that’s not a tree!” Sure, okay, The Odyssey an’ all, but it’s definitely an outlier.

The Eliot answer took me embarrassingly long as well. My brain was trying to find a way to make JALFREDPRUFROCK work. Oops…wrong Eliot!

Anonymous 11:25 AM  

Also, LL Cool J’s heyday was 40 years ago now. That’s like complaining about Andrews Sisters clues in 1985.

Dr Random 11:31 AM  

Also, there was a time when I had only the E and the USES of ESPOUSES, and thought “…ENTHUSES? Oh please God no! If that’s a word, no one ever says it!” And my prayer was answered, so all is well with the world.

Anonymous 11:36 AM  

No trees in the "dead tree" printout but the theme clues were starred *****!!!!! That helped as things went in (T)hither and yon.

Anonymous 11:38 AM  

I guess it was easier if you have the actual NEWSPAPER in hand. Harder to find now days but worth the 4 bucks! Great constructors being able to put in Schweppes and bearnaise in one puzzle!

Toby the boring one 11:39 AM  

I loved today’s puzzle. So much fun and very satisfying

Chip Hilton 11:59 AM  

My wife nominates The Scarlet Letter and I go with Ivanhoe under the same heading - later re-reads that we loved. So true. My freshman brain just wasn’t ready for Scott (even though the character names Front de Boeuf and Brian De Bois-guilbert never left me).

Anonymous 11:59 AM  

@smalltowndoc, there is a setting in the app to play music or not. Open the settings (gear icon in upper right corner) and move the slider to enable the music.

Chip Hilton 12:02 PM  

Not much mystery as my first entry was FOREST. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed this. I must’ve had at least six highly reasonable answers that ceded their positions to those that were needed. Really pretty puzzle with the tree names left behind. Bravo!

DrBB 12:02 PM  

My Dad *was* a considerable fiction reader (and writer)--studied with Penn Warren, Berryman and Bellow at U of Minnesota back in the 50s--but he imparted to me the same prejudice against Marner you ESPOUSE. I love Eliot, but nope, I haven't read Silas Marner either. His line was "They'll force you to read it somewhere along the line so you might as well go ahead and get it out of the way," but I never did. Why I always get a kick out of the shoutout to that sentiment in one of the classroom scenes in A Christmas Story.

Anonymous 12:18 PM  

This puzzle is published exactly one week and one day before Arbor Day. I guess they wanted it on a Thursday, but next Thursday would have been only one day off.

That said, I was confused by the theme--in fact, only just now did I notice that the missing letters in the theme answers, replaced by the little trees, spell out FOREST when read top-to-bottom and left-to-right. OK. And if the tree is left of center it goes with the word on its left, right of center it's the first letter of the word on its right. Ideally, then, the last tree, dead center in the line, should have gone with both APPLE(T) and (T)PAOLO, but no. You'd need a six-letter tree name starting with T -- tamarack is too long, teak is too short. I'm drawing a blank here.

Aside from that, it's neat, though complicated--you literally cannot see the FOREST because the TREES are blocking the view of its letters.

Aside from that, my only problem was remembering SCHWEPPES. Do they make anything but tonic water? I guess that is a soft drink, but I was looking for something more generic; my fault, not theirs.

As for "brand of oversized Lego bricks," I'll take the puzzle's word for it -- only they are officially not bricks, but Lego.

Linguistic puzzle: is a GILA monster a kind of monster, or is it a kind of lizard? Good tricky clue, though.

Anonymous 12:33 PM  

Me too, DoPLO.

jb129 12:37 PM  

Can someone please tell me how to solve this thing? I don't want to lose my streak - got the trees/forest but no music - help!

jberg 12:48 PM  

me too for trying to fit in Prufrock; then I decided maybe one of those practical cats was named MAusER. I think it was the JETSONS who finally opened my eyes, Eliot-wise.

Sailor 12:48 PM  

Re LOTUS: I had the same problem. Either it's not a tree, or else it's a mythological tree, so whichever way you look at it, it's just not the same as the others in this list. I resisted that entry until the very end.

Some well-meaning folks who think the Odyssey's dream-tree just has to be real have nominated the jujube or the date-plum (a kind of persimmon) as likely candidates, and sometimes even refer to them as such. But as the man once said, wishing don't make it so.

jae 12:50 PM  

To clarify I did know ISOSCELES just not that definition.

jberg 12:51 PM  

Like several others, I was confusing MNEME with her mother, and seriously wondered whether there was another wrinkle to the missing-letter trick, but no. I think I was misled by Melpomene, an actual muse with an eponymous street in New Orleans.

Mary Jane 1:04 PM  

I also hated Great Expectations; tried reading again in my 30s and Pip still gave me the pip. And will never retackle Silas Marner.

jb129 1:21 PM  

Never mind - found my typo :(
I even went so far as to think it was a rebus being a Thursday.
Very frustrating today for me & spent way too much time. Tomorrow's another day, as they say ...

Niallhost 1:39 PM  

2 Naticks for me. Rex mentioned ACTIN/TUN (no clue on either) but also PAULO/DUPLO since PAoLO seemed most likely, and had never heard of DUPLO. Got that the trees represented the first letters of FOREST, which I thought was kind of lame but then noticed the truncated answers were all trees which made it better, even if it didn't add to the solving experience. Not my favorite Thursday to solve (or not solve as the case may be, or is), but impressive achievement.

jb129 1:44 PM  

That's where my typo was - glad I finally found it & wasn't alone with this clue.

Anoa Bob 1:46 PM  

I knew 4D "Literally, 'equal legs'" would be ISOCELES because the eponymous triangle has two of them. I needed a little help, however, from crosses to get the spelling. So off to a good start on this one.

Then things went south. I once memorized the classic Muses, thinking that they would come in handy in solving xwords. (My favorite is Terpsichore. Fun to say!) But 37A MNEME isn't one of the nine sisters. Discombobulating, that.

To further set muddy the waters, along comes 50D DUPLO. Say what?! Is that fair? UH, NO. Not surprised that it's only the second appearance in a NYTXW. (The first was in 2007.)

Then I couldn't decipher the grid symmetry. Rotational? Lateral? Diagonal? Finally decided there was none. I thought that was not permissible.

Overall I appreciated the cleverness of the theme but for the above reasons came away with a touch of 53D PTSD; Post Traumatic Solve Dissonance, that is.

okanaganer 1:46 PM  

My last square was where ACTIN and TUN cross; I went through the alphabet and finally decided on T only to... not get the Happy Pencil? Turns out I had PAOLO crossing DOPLO. Stupid stupid brand names, yecchh.

The theme was fine; I actually saw all the tree types but didn't realize the missing letters spelled FOREST. As Rex said, a real nice extra touch.

@Son Volt, thanks for the link to Cure's "A Forest" video... one of my favorite remasters.

Anonymous 1:59 PM  

23A: "Going back to Cali", 44A: "Hmm, I don't think so". Coincidence? I don't think so.

DigitalDan 2:04 PM  

Spelling Bee doesn't think anybody remembers anything from biology, physics, chemistry, or any of the other hard sciences. When words like TINCT are not accepted . . . .

Les S. More 2:25 PM  

I didn't love this as much as @Rex and a lot of commenters but I did think it was very clever. Especially the clue for BRUNO Mars. Don't know a lot about beer production but I do know TUN from lots of visits to wineries where I often try to get past the tasting rooms and into the back where I can talk to the winemaker. The T of TUN helped me get the otherwise unknown ACTIN at 5A. Stared at MN at 37A for quite a while, thinking there's no word that begins that way. But, of course, mnemonic does, so that was a fun moment. But the joy was nulllified shortly thereafter when I returned to 5D and had to type in ABLOOM. There are 6 or 7 ornamental cherries on our farm and they are all IN bloom at the moment. I've never heard anyone say ABLOOM. I hate those A-words.

Managed to misspell both ISOSCoLES and Sao PAoLO. Both easily corrected by obvious crosses. ARNIE was a big question mark for me. I've read bedtime stories to 3 sons and have never encountered this this anthropomorphic pastry. Nor have I ever read John MCPHEE but I may have to look him up.

ChrisS 2:46 PM  

The Lotus tree, native to the Mediterranean area, is not one I was familiar with. I do know of lotus-eaters from Greek myth but did not know they were eating this tree. Lotus tree is related to the Jujube tree, the fruit of which were an ingredient the olden days candy Jujubes. Things one learns going down an internet rabbit hole.

Masked and Anonymous 2:54 PM  

Superb ThursPuz forestation. thUmbsUp.
Especially like its puzgrid asymmetry ... qualifies it as many a runtpuz soulmate.
Also, all the hidden trees behind the F-O-R-E-S-T letters made for an excellent ahar moment.
Fairly easy-ish solvequest, at our house. Few ?-marker clues.

staff weeject picks: EES & SST, in the SE FOREST corner.

some of the faves: SCHWEPPES [my PuzEatinSpouse luvs that brand in her tonic & lime drinks]. ISOSCELES. USETHEFORCE [close to: USETHEFOREST]. FLOTUS. Mysterious BRUNO clue [like some others, I had BRAND at first stab].

Thanx for gangin up on us, Mr. Kolkowitz & Kolkowitz dudes. Nice FIRst rate job debuts.

Masked & Anonymo6Us

... and now for some no-foolin ...

"No Means NO!" - 7x7 themed runt puzzle:

**gruntz**\

M&A

okanaganer 3:04 PM  

@DigitalDan, SB does accept TINCT.

Anonymous 3:21 PM  

No visuals of trees in the version I printed. Made it slightly more challenging, but not much.

M and A 3:39 PM  

p.s.
Nice Fir tree artwork, usin the black squares, btw.

M&Also

CDilly52 4:19 PM  

Yesterday was nostalgia day for me (and a very very late post). I woke up this morning jonesing for a bowl of cereal! Today we had a novel debut Thursday. What a treat, despite the easy solve.

When I saw the little trees, I grumbled, not being a fan of grid art. But today was well constructed and cleverly done. The grid was subordinate to the tree placement so that we see the form of an evergreen tree and the little trees that sit in place of a letter. And the gestalt came together beautifully.

Hiding a letter in order for the answer to represent a tree frustrated me for a hot second at 25A because I think of LOTUS as a flower rather than a tree. But since good old red ELM(O) followed, that’s when the light came on. I understood the theme instantly as 38A connected to 64A. Really impressive, well managed theme. At the end when (after quite a long while with the app’s issues today) the trees disappeared to reveal the hidden letters, I smiled.

This grid art Thursday satisfied me in every way as a grid art puzzle almost never can. The design is critical to the solving experience and is integral to the theme. Well done Kolkowitzes!! I too grew up with the NYTXW being a daily activity (in ink no less!) for my grandmother, and I have continued the meaningful tradition. Best Thursday in quite a while. I look forward to your next offering.

Anonymous 4:26 PM  

Also, that shit dropped in 87, not 98…

Fish 4:31 PM  

Not a problem as I solve the old-fashioned way, in the actual newspaper with a pen

dgd 7:02 PM  

Anonymous 7:40 AM
And others
Apparently, the LLCOOLJ answer was one of those cases where knowing “too much “ is a problem. In my ignorance, I had no trouble once I got a few crosses.

Dione Drew 9:47 PM  

or that the theme clues (sans hidden letter) are all tree types!! FIR, LOTUS, PEAR, ELM, APPLE, ASH!

Hugh 9:52 PM  

Found this to be a relatively easyish Thursday. Got the theme fairly quickly and had fun with it. The print version does not have pictures of trees but those clues were starred so you pretty much knew where to look.
Big hold up for me for whatever reason was SCHWEPPES - I've seen it, I've bought it, I've mixed drinks with it but my brain kept on going to Schnapple and got stuck there (even though I had the W from CROWD). That didn't stop me from getting all the themers, however, so it didn't make me too sad.
Like @Lewis, I had Brand before BRUNO but NOHELP fell and that gave me the O I needed.
Did not know ACTIN or TUN but now I do, so that's makes me smile.
I also had a tough time with SOLACES, didn't know DUPLO so the L was MIA and my brain wasn't clicking with the cluing. All fair and square though.
That was a fun fact about the JETSONS -who knew?

Sandy McCroskey 11:11 PM  

Man, I'm so glad I print these out and work on paper. So some of you have an app that puts tree symbols in the grid…?! That gives the whole game away. Talk about dumbing down!

Gary Jugert 11:48 PM  

La mente no es un recipiente que debe llenarse, sino un fuego que debe encenderse.

Fun puzzle. Funny puzzle. Took awhile to gain some traction, but then it learned to behave. FLOTUS was the first one to show me the secret and then I went and filled in all the rest all at once. Grand time was had by me.

I can never remember all the muses so MNEME took the longest. Three might be a crowd, but it really depends on the activity. I find the spelling of ISOSCELES to be quite rude. I can't believe how much trouble I had figuring out a Halloween transport is a BROOM! I'm sort of surprised The Jetsons was ABC's first color program. Don't know why but that seems crazy to me. Brilliant work to have horseshoe enthusiast next to hoof it.

People: 8
Places: 2
Products: 5
Partials: 6
Foreignisms: 2
--
Gary's Grid Gunk Gauge: 23 of 72 (32%)

Funnyisms: 6 😅

Uniclues:

1 PBJs need transporting to school...
2 Device for causing female calf cramps.
3 Clarified butter, egg yolk, white wine vinegar, and herbs stirred up by a dead guy.
4 Imagine doing it on your own.

1 ERGO LUNCH BOXES
2 HER TOE SHOE (~)
3 ANGEL BERNAISE
4 DREAM OF NO HELP (~)

My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: Contrivance of a poetic cruciverbalist. OREO ELEGY PLOY.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anonymous 4:03 AM  

Apt name for a December baby C---- CLAUS

Anonymous 8:09 AM  

Yes! Obviously LL but the year threw me and tried other fill!

Anonymous 8:25 AM  

Solace is not a verb!!

Mary Jean Babic 8:59 AM  

No, I have the current iOS version. So weird. Thanks!

Anonymous 9:39 AM  

@anonymous 8:25 Neither is comforts, in this case. Both are plural nouns

Anonymous 1:24 PM  

The going back to cali hint really threw me off. The much, much more famous song is by Notorious B.I.G. That, combined with the fact the answer looked like it could have been a theme, really had me going down the complete wrong path.

Anonymous 1:26 PM  

I wonder if they found an LL compilation album that was released in 1998…

Anonymous 2:42 PM  

More famous to you, maybe, but absolutely not “much more famous” in any empirical sense. I’ve never even heard the Biggy song, but can sing (rap) you every note of the LL song. They’re both famous, did about equally well on the charts.

BT 12:59 PM  

In this time of so many stupid people, it is rare and surprising to come upon something that is genius. Loved this puzzle, 2nd favorite of all time after the "Trick or Treat" Halloween puzzle about 10 years ago. Just commenting in case the authors read this. Thank you!

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