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Unusual meat courses that are neither ... / WED 5-22-24 / Longtime bridge columnist Charles / Like fervent fans at the Kentucky Derby, punnily enough / Private eye, in old slang / Progressive advocacy group for public policy
Wednesday, May 22, 2024
Constructor: Martin Schneider
Relative difficulty: Medium
Theme answers:
- EGG CREAMS (18A: Carbonated fountain drinks that contain neither ...)
- SWEETBREADS (23A: Unusual meat courses that are neither ...)
- ENGLISH HORN (49A: Woodwind instrument that is neither ...)
- GRAPE NUTS (56A: Breakfast cereal that contains neither ...)
The cor anglais (UK: /ˌkɔːr ˈɒŋɡleɪ/, US: /- ɑːŋˈɡleɪ/ or original French: [kɔʁ ɑ̃ɡlɛ]; plural: cors anglais), or English horn (in North American English), is a double-reed woodwind instrument in the oboe family. It is approximately one and a half times the length of an oboe, making it essentially an alto oboe in F.The cor anglais is a transposing instrument pitched in F, a perfect fifth lower than the oboe (a C instrument). This means that music for the cor anglais is written a perfect fifth higher than the instrument sounds. The fingering and playing technique used for the cor anglais are essentially the same as those of the oboe, and oboists typically double on the cor anglais when required. The cor anglais normally lacks the lowest B♭ key found on most oboes, and so its sounding range stretches from E3 (written B♮) below middle C to C6 two octaves above middle C. Some versions being made today have a Low B♭ Key to Extend the Range down one more note to sounding E♭3 (wikipedia)
• • •
ONE-ARM and BAD ONES are bad ones, in that they conspicuously dupe ONE. Duping a common preposition like ON (ON THE LAM, MOVEON) doesn't grate nearly as much. The editors clearly don't care about duping words left and right, but that doesn't make it good practice. Never thought much about duping prefixes, but when you cross them (MISNOMERS, MISGAUGE) you highlight the duping and turn a non-issue into an issue. These little things add to the overall inelegant, wonky feel of the grid. On the other hand, there are some vivid nontheme answers that I kind of like. I thought MIX SET was original (it is, debuting today) (44D: D.J.'s performance), and ... well, I was all set to like UNDERARM but I just noticed that UNDERARM gives us yet another dupe. This time it's ARM that's the problem (UNDERARM, ONE-ARM). This makes ONE-ARM a rare double dupe (giving us both 2xONE and 2xARM). This doubles the double theme in unpleasant and surely unintended ways. If there are other dupes, please don't tell me, I'm tired now.
Best wrong answers of the day were HATTED for 1D: Like fervent fans at the Kentucky Derby, punnily enough (HOARSE) (not sure what I thought the "pun" was) and CROC for 16A: Nile queen, familiarly (CLEO). In both cases, I had the first letter and then just went ... astray. Cannot believe they exhumed the GOREN Bridge guy for this thing. The rule is, you never ever ever get to complain about some rapper you don't know if you don't also complain about this GOREN guy, who is well known only to bridge players and people who solve way, way too many puzzles (especially in the olden days). GOREN crossing EPEE and NENE is threatening to tear a hole in the crossword time/space and suck us all back to 1985. Ooxteplernon* is well pleased. In closing, my regular reminder that TEC is bad, please stop (9D: Private eye, in old slang). It's not that no one has ever used it, it's just that it is truly rare, even in "old slang." Looks like it might be more viable as slang in British English? Question mark? I see a couple recent examples from The Guardian (cited at vocabulary.com):
You have my permission to use TELLY TEC. Otherwise, let's keep TEC locked up. And honestly, if you're going to let TEC out, at least tie him to the iconically-a-detective actor you've got sitting right there (7D: Humphrey of old Hollywood, to fans)!
See you next time.
Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld
Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld
*OOXTEPLERNON —the god of bad short fill, called into being by this puzzle (see central horizontal line in the grid).
[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]
[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]
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102 comments:
Now someone needs to construct a 15x15 with Triple Misnomers like "Holy Roman Empire"...
I’m surprised you didn’t mention la petite French lesson throughout the grid. Such heavy reliance on foreign words is a sure sign of bad fill.
I found this puzzle to be very enjoyable, with a unique theme that brought back memories. "Why do they call them SWEETBREADS?" I asked my mother. She didn't know. "Where are the grapes in GRAPENUTS?"
I solved it in short order. My only sticking point was the absence of "nor" to follow "neither" in the clues. Was there a reason for it?
The missing “nor” thing got me too - I kept trying to figure out a rebus situation where “nor” would fit somewhere and that slowed me way down. That and my first - very confident feeling - answer of whIzz for the item on a cheesesteak. I was so certain of it that it held up the NW for me for a long time. Not sure why I even thought of a cheesesteak without cheese being a possibility, but such is the brain at 4:30am.
But yeah, clunky themers. Answers feel incomplete without a “nor” somewhere.
BADONES is a real clunker. And WTF is "Two past 'cue'" referring to?
But I still think the puzzles are being directed at ofl in part.
I hate hate hate 34 Down. The software doesn't fix software. We humans do, using that tool to tell us what's going on under the hood. This was completely ungettable for me because I have the bad fortune of being a programmer.
There was plenty here for me to stumble over and I certainly made a mess of certain sections. Hopefully I’m not the only one who doesn’t get the clue for ESS. I also never heard the term MIX SET and of course AIX is just dark matter, so without all of the crosses I was toast.
I also botched up the spelling on LIEGE, couldn’t come up with AFOOT or HAIFA, and never heard of the MANNS - so that section just looked like Alphabet Salad. Surprisingly, I handled the theme entries pretty routinely for a change, but a couple of other sections were my downfall today.
@Anonymous 6:06: There's MOI, a pretty well known French word. There's "NOM de plume," a phrase used in English. Where's the rest of the French lesson?
My favorite puzzle in quite some time. Loved the theme. Agree with Rex that TEC needs to be killed with fire. I'm betting it won't happen, though.
MISGAUGE? Not MISJUDGE? DONEE? TEC?
BAD ONES was, uhh, a bad one. Constructor could have figured out a way to include "neither/nor" in the themer, but decided not to be clever. This whole puzzle was a BAD ONE(S).
And can we please, please put a moratorium on EPEE? That's in every third puzzle, it seems.
Awful grid.
DONEE?
Can somebody please enlighten me?
Once I saw the theme I was expecting GRAPE NUTS, and along it came. I also expected 'Guinea pig', which never appeared.
Tuesday and Wednesday should have been swapped.
Would have been funny if they’d figured out a way to get DISCUSS in there someone (Coffee Talk, old SNL bit).
I found it easier than @Rex did, and I liked it better than he did.
I was thinking farsI before HINDI for the shampoo language at 1A and I wanted MIXups before MIX SET at 4D.
Here’s a puzzle that doesn’t scream “TODAY! TODAY! TODAY!”. And maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. Martin has made 13 NYT puzzles, but this is his first in 20 years, and his debut came 30 years ago, when he was in his 20s (according to his notes).
And while the grid doesn’t have a contemporary sheen, it’s loaded with freshness. When you look at the freshness diagram of this puzzle in XwordInfo, it’s saturated with answers that have seldom or never appeared in the NYT puzzle in every area except the NW and SE corners.
That explains why the puzzle doesn’t feel stale even though it doesn’t shout “TODAY!” I loved this. I loved the feel of filling this in.
So many lovely answers: EGG CREAMS, CLAY PIPE, ENGLISH HORN, DEMEANOR, INGRATES, MISGAUGE, DOUBLE MISNOMER, LIEGE.
And the theme itself, pointing out how strange and wonderful our language is. How beautiful it is in a wabi-sabi way.
To me, this puzzle is a jewel, one that stands out. Martin, thank you for creating it. I’m glad you have returned to making puzzles, and for heaven’s sakes, don’t wait another 20 years, please!
You thought MIX SET was original because it is…it’s not really a thing anybody says. A DJ plays a set or a mix, they don’t perform a MIX SET.
This entire puzzle comes across as all the attention was placed on the theme and a computer auto filled the rest including the clues.
@floatingboy, CUE (as in the letter "Q") is two letters before ESS (as in the letter "S")
@Justin, DONEE is the recipient of something from a donor. As in, if I give you a kidney, I'm a donor, and you are the DONEE.
Q R S
I was in college in the 80s, and a popular thing then was to wear button with sayings on them.
And a popular button said:
THE MORAL MAJORITY IS NEITHER
If the clues had been done this way without the ellipsis, I think people wouldn't have been thrown by the lack of NOR - at least not as badly.
Big mistake at 12A. In a Philly cheesesteak wit or without refers to Cheese Whiz, not onions.
Two after “cue” means “2 letters after Q in the alphabet”: Q R S
Someone to whom a donor donates something
An organ doner gives her kidney to a done who needs it
I was so happy to see English Horn make an appearance. It's the old music joke, after all - what's special about an English horn? It's neither. I had fun with this puzzle and I admit "nor" never occurred to me. But yes, Goren reminded me of the NY Times so many years ago. Sweet nostalgia.
I did not hate the puzzle, breezed through it. Almost all puzzles have their share of little junk words. Winced only at inertial.
Agree the NW was ugly
Also cringed at MIX SET
I thought the puzzle was fun today. I started out pretty slow but seemed to be rescued by the down clues. I caught on fairly early with the SWE filled in for SWEETBREADS (ick) but I still needed some crosses to get the other themers. I dunno…the lack of “nor” didn’t bother me since a “neither” requires a “nor”(?). Today I learned what an ENGLISHHORN is.
I agree with @Rex about the complaint scene with Goren/rap artist. I’m 69 and how do I know about Goren? Because his column was always located in the comics section of the newspaper. Not only did I resent him taking up the real estate that COULD have more comics…I read the column once, and thought…”who reads this stuff”?! I figure it was Ward and June Cleaver, and Dr. and Mrs (Donna Reed) Stone.
Hey All !
I thought puz was pretty good. Lots of Themers to work around/through. Fill as good/bad as a typical puz. IMHO. 😁
Took a minute to figure out how the Themers were supposed to work. Took till GRAPENUTS for the ole brain to realize what the dealio was.
Only 30 Blockers, quite a low count for a Themed puz. Hence we get those big open corners.
I say Well done puz, Martin. 10A could've been a Themer - Band that contains neither...
Har.
Happy Wednesday!
One F
RooMonster
DarrinV
Thank you for the DONEE explanation, I absolutely could not parse that one today — kept trying to read it like a “long E”-style entry.
I enjoyed this more than Rex (not uncommon) and the ellipses didn’t bother me. I’ve always been curious about these “double misnomers” (especially SWEETBREADS) so that was fun. I know absolutely nothing about bridge, but I knew GOREN because he had a column in the newspaper every single day when I was young (and innocent, but that’s another story).
What a nifty idea for a theme! And for me it began with the most curiosity-provoking one: the one with the clue "unusual meat courses that are neither..."
What on earth could that possibly mean? SWEET had mostly come in, and I was thinking of some sort of vile-tasting meat substitute concoction. SWEET TOFU? SWEET SEITAN? I needed a lot more crosses before SWEETBREADS finally came in. Aha! Now, even before I have DOUBLE MISNOMERS, I know what the theme is going to be. In a way, I'm disappointed to know that because I was enjoying the intensity of my curiosity so much.
All of the themers are well-chosen and interesting, but SWEETBREADS is the marquee entry for me.
A word about SWEETBREADS and why the dish might have been thusly named. It sure sounds a lot more appetizing than "thymus" or "pancreas", doesn't it?
And the cluing in the puzzle was great too. Loved OBIT, INGRATES and ROME. A fun and engaging Wednesday.
Ooh, I sense a wit or without controversy brewing. I’m partial to Pat’s myself. Check out the “Tips for Ordering” on their website - they are clearly on the onions side on this one. I don’t know if they are the definitive resource on the topic, but they are certainly a credible source of info.
https://www.patskingofsteaks.com/
I predict that Nancy will join me in saying that the wordplay in the clues was quite fun, clever and playful, especially for a Wednesday. Also, a neat idea for a theme with rock solid answers. The wording of those clues was weird enough that I just waited for what was going on to come into view.
Thanks Lewis, for relaying the constructor’s notes and explaining the somewhat of yesteryear puzzle feel. I think it has a handmade nature to it, which would explain the number of issues RP points out that are frequently avoided with software. I don’t mind the -ese when clued cleverly or uniquely. I always thought that was part of the fun of crosswords: the weird partials, obscure words, overuse of PPP that have xword-friendly letters, and the lengths constructors have to go to to worm their way out of these jams.
I enjoyed the variety and the French terms and geography came quickly. Not sure if coeur d’ ___ can count as a bonus French clue.
Donor, donee. Like Tutor, tutee.
A person receiving a donation.
Gotta agree with you. Clue for DEBUGGER was incorrectly worded. Should have been “Computer program used to fix other computer programs”
Donor, donee. Like tutor, tutee.
ORATORIO crossing not one, but two obscure names is just...terrible?
Yes, I should know ERNO because it comes up so much, but it's just so very much not a usual combination that it won't stick, possibly because I always want it to be Enzo.
The opposite of donor. Like employer/employee.
An absolutely delightful and, pace Rex, brilliant puzzle. This one just whizzed by.
Ron, you’re mistaken on this one. Here’s the official Philly tourism site, which along with every other source on my Googling, confirms that with or without refers to onions: https://www.visitphilly.com/media-center/press-releases/cheesesteak-101-a-primer-on-the-who-what-where-whiz-of-philly-cheesesteaks/
seconded from another developer! it’s bad enough the nyt seems to think “beta” means buggy as opposed to pre-release, but this clue is just wrong.
MIXSET doesn’t seem to be a thing either. it’s dj mix or a dj set
Although I didn’t like this puzzle much, it reminded me of how I laugh every time I see a can of Chock Full o’ Nuts (*contains no nuts)
I got a kick out of the first three themers, But, sorry, an English horn is indeed a horn. At least in musician’s parlance.
Well, I didn’t hate it but agree 100% with Rex on expecting the theme answers to contain a NOR. That was my first thought when I saw the “neither …” which kinda threw things off kilter from the start. My margins are filled with question marks: EGG CREAMS? CLAY PIPE? Those are on me because I just never heard of them. MISGAUGE? INERTIAL? ORATORIO? MIC SET? Partially on me because I thought they sounded clunky. Why are they the wife’s sister‘s daughters and not just the sister’s? And finally, what on earth was two past cue/ESS?? Thankfully, I don’t feel like such an INGRATE now, seeing I’m not the only person who didn’t appreciate that clue.
BEHAVIOR before DEMEANOR. DECIMAL instead of BASE TEN. I was ON THE RUN before I went ON THE LAM, and the guy who gets it was a GONER before he became a DONEE. And my biggest disappointment was right out of the gate (pun intended), where I confidently dubbed the Derby fans HORSEY. Actually though, it’s not punny at all around here where that’s how many people commonly refer to those who own non-working horses or are into horse shows, competitions, etc.
Well, I liked it.
I really enjoyed the cluing for OBIT - a story that begins with the end.
A few challenges in the NW, putting Horse instead of RACER, having no clue about Philly cheesesteak condiments (Sauce?) and thinking, are the Derby fans really cOARSE?
But the SE nearly finished me, being so sure that ONTHErun was correct.
But it was fun anyway.
Addendum: for a person who worked in finance for years, I find the crossworld’s ideas about financial terms odd indeed. Topline was today’s.
Currently visiting Santa Fe, and off to see some art!
“A DJ mix or DJ mixset is a sequence of musical tracks typically mixed together to appear as one continuous track” (Wikipedia)
Back in the printed newspaper era, Charles Goren's syndicated bridge column was on the same page as the crossword. At the risk of revealing my age, I knew the answer to this clue cold.
Additional trivia. Omar Sharif (yes, that one) later co-authored the column.
@DavidF, thank you for spelling out the ESS clue. Had me stumped.
I enjoy every NYT crossword puzzle and have trouble understanding how folks get into a mindset of 'hating' or otherwise disliking/not enjoying a puzzle. It's a mental workout, and if something about it stumps me then I get to learn something new, such as the clever "two after 'cue'" clue.
Some may be harder than others, but my appreciation for the constructor's (and editor's) efforts, as well as my solving (mental) workout never strays into a negative area.
Here in Coeur d’ALENE we giggled at almost every aspect of today’s game. Mrs Newboy’s older sister was famous for her “MOI?” said so often she was HOARSE. SWEET BREAD is often on the specials sheet at our favorite local bistro, & Mon Dieu did we enjoy the French echoes which recalled a recent New Year’s Eve celebrated with two million of our new friends beneath the Eiffel Tower. Then NENE triggered a parched afternoon climbing back up the shifting sands of the caldera…..and so it went. Only the X was elusive appropriately for TKs to bring on the happy tune.
Thanks all!
You know me well, @burtonkd (9:23).
HINDI...I started with you. I am forever grateful that I now know where "Shampoo" comes from. Tuck it under my hat. Continue...I get to my first Unusual meat. Hmmmm....Yikes!. I had some SWEET DREAMS. I stared for one day. Go back to the top and I sez to myself how can you order a Philly cheesesteak WIT OUT an ONION? You've gotta have onions. Continue.
I seemed to have trouble all over the place but I'll be damned if I'm going to cheat or even not finish on hump day. I soldiered on...This puzzle was becoming interesting. Let's see if I can figure it out. I did. I had a B in place for the reveal and a little MIS. Oh, wait UNDER ARM gave me a U....Can it be DOUBLE MISNOMER? Yes...This isn't a rebus puzzle even though a NOR should've come out of its hiding.
So now I see what Martini is doing here. And I clapped and I thought this was very clever and I liked it.
P.S. I finally corrected my dreams to SWEET BREADS. By the way, they are delicious when grilled. Add some chimichurri on it and you'll think you're eating veal. Well, maybe not veal because I don't eat baby anything, but maybe like an oyster!
@Lewis....Thanks for the. info on our constructor TODAY!
Of course, "stable genius" is the ne plus ultra of the DOUBLEMISNOMERS and, although I've thought of a few others while typing this, I wouldn't want to distract from the basic need to recognize the unstable moronic nature of our possible next President. Lest there be any doubt, I wouldn't vote for DEBUGGER.
I'm currently writing an ode to Louise's road crime buddy. It's called "On Thelma ONTHELAM." I'm hoping this is as well received as my previous ode, "ONION" which celebrated charged particles and Philly Cheesesteaks.
I don't think that @Rex pointed out the dupish pair MIXSET and INSETS. I loved them so much that I experienced the joy of sets.
I actually loved the theme here and had no problem with the fill. Nice 20 year comeback, Martin Schneider.
Medium-tough. NW was knotty. Did not know the Cheese Steak thing, never quite sure about spelling ALENE (that also goes for LADLES), HOARSE wasn’t obvious…grateful for NIECE and IN-LAWS. I also had trouble in the center. I was unfamiliar with what a “starburst” is and initially put an s where the x needed to go for 40a…hence on the tough side of medium for me.
Cute/interesting theme with some iffy fill, mostly liked it.
I, too, was bothered by the lack of "nor" At first I thought it had to be a rebus but no. It felt really wrong not to have the nor in there.
I also thought "wit" or "witout" referred to the cheese and promptly put in whizz.
Hello old friends NENE and ERNO.
Respectfully disagree. The order “wiz wit” is common and refers to a cheesesteak using cheese wiz (vs provolone say) and adding onion. Wit definitely refers to the onion. Pat’s and Geno’s would agree
“AIX” may be “dark matter” to some, but to the rest of us “Aix en Provence" a beautiful town in southern France.
And to be even more technical, Cheese Wiz not Whiz.
Well, I actually liked this one, a fact doubtless connected to the fact that I got it. I agree, though, about the problem of "nor" in the themers.
I don’t play bridge but GOREN’s bridge column was usually in the same area as the puzzles so I just took note of it. Another notable bridge player was Omar Sharif.
A gall stone broke loose and wedged into one of my SWEETBREADS (the pancreas) last week. I was in the hospital for three days as the painful inflammation subsided. They're still trying to figure out how to get the damned thing out.
I haven't liked a puzzle this much in a while. Not to sound like The Beach Boys, but for me it was "Fun Fu Fun".
Almost afraid to read the comments ...
Thanks, Martin, for a really enjoyable puzzle :)
The coffee talk skit has to be the origin of this puzzle, right?
@ Anonymous 10:35 - Nice comment & one I agree with most of the time (I 'might' have had 1 or 2 exceptions ...)
"Some may be harder than others, but my appreciation for the constructor's (and editor's) efforts, as well as my solving (mental) workout never strays into a negative area".
Yeah, it’s cheese (generally whiz, provolone, or American) of choice, then with/without on the onions.
72-worder puz. Allows it to spew out all kinds of longball entries to please and displease someone or another.
Really liked the oxymoron-like puztheme, which was neither … acne treatment-like nor dimwit-like.
staff weeject pick; AIX. Artificial Intelligence X-rated word, I reckon. Need to turn that there xword DEBUGGER loose on it.
some fave stuff: HOARSE clue. DEMEANOR. OREGON [cool state]. INERTIAL. ONTHELAM. Couer d'ALENE [cool town]. BOGIE [cool actor]. TIX/NIX & AIX/MIX.
Thanx for the fun, Mr. Schneider dude. Good job.
Masked & Anonymo3Us
p.s.
@egsforbreakfast: yep. STABLEGENIUS woulda been superb themer meat. har
**gruntz**
I liked the puzzle mostly. Yeah, some subpar fill, but I thought it was fun and interesting enough all in all.
This old timer hasn’t played bridge since 1964 but still reads the column every day. Taught by my mother, who pretty much memorized Goren’s book. Played slmost every day starting in 1958.
The puzzle was enjoyable and Wednesday easy for me.
@Rex wrote: "not sure what I thought the 'pun' was". But the pun is so obvious that HOARSE raced out of the starting gate, lengths ahead of the pack. I agree with his complaint about the ellipses, although I never even noticed them.
Who hasn't heard of a CLAY PIPE? Paul Cezanne, William Hogarth, Vincent Van Gogh and many other artists did. Visit a museum.
OK, I understand the ARM problem, but it's not my problem. "You and whose UNDERARMY!"
BTW, I used to date Miss Nomer, but she left me to travel to Guinea to buy a pig.
I have a good Handel on baroque music so ORATORIO went right in.
This old timer remembers that.
Yeah, what the heck, who thinks up names to things? Probably a bunch of colonialist boobs from London. I had sweet bread in England and it's meat. MEAT! And gross meat to boot. The kind of meat your grampa eats.
I put English horns in most of the symphonic works I write, but honestly, it'll be a long time before I give 'em a solo.
I've heard of egg creams, but never had one, and occasionally I go on a Grape Nuts binge, ya know, because I am an old white man and it's what we do.
POW then WOW then NOW then NEW. Sheesk. I am so much better at advertising than anybody.
It really bugs me when they call the Queen of Egypt, one of the most powerful women in history, "Cleo." I wonder if the Times ever clued Queen Elizabeth as "Liz?"
Propers: 7
Places: 4
Products: 3
Partials: 4
Foreignisms: 5
--
Gary's Grid Gunk Gauge: 23 (32%)
Tee-Hee: Hairiest place at a liberal arts college? NIECE'S UNDERARM
Uniclues:
1 Rubik treats Brian to a Baroque concert.
2 Exterminator whose team lost the championship last night.
3 🎼 You're sleeping on an air mattress in my living room. 🎶 Please go home. 🎵 You make a mess and use up all the TP in the bathroom. 🎶 Please go home. 🎵 You run your face and I am filled with dread and gloom. 🎶 Please oh please go fricken home. :||
4 Sweetie gave her sword to Goodwill.
5 Chicken that just won't stop.
6 Woodworking tool falling off the table.
7 Long hair, plaid shirt, homeless vibe.
8 Free zooms.
1 ERNO TIX ENO
2 HOARSE DEBUGGER
3 IN-LAWS ORATORIO
4 DONEE A BOO EPEE
5 INERTIAL NENE
6 RASP ON THE LAM
7 OREGON DEMEANOR
8 COSTLESS INSETS
My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: 🎵 I am hot. 🎵 I am nude. 🎵 I am sweating like a pig. 🎵 Take your shots. 🎵 Say I'm rude. 🎵 I'll be skinny as a twig. 🎵 {you know the rest}. SAUNA ARIA.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He was referring to HATTED when he said he didn’t know what he thought the pun was. The hoarse pun is obvious.
Only been solving for a few months, so maybe this is simply wisely known, but surprised not to see MRT (TV actor who was once a body guard (charging $10k/day) mentioned anywhere. I'm totally stumped. Oh, still don't know who it is, but maybe it's ok to be initials because "10k" counts as an abbreviation?
Good grief
The theme was good enough. When I hit the revealer at 23 across, having EGG CREAMS and SWEET BREADS in place, I typed in EDIBLE MISNOMERS. It would have been neat if they were all foods.
A few grimaces for me, notably DONEE and MIGAUGE (I had MISJUDGE). ON THE RUN before ON THE LAM. For "Wife's sister's daughters" I put in INLAWS before changing it to NIECES, then typing it back in just to the left.
@Chris from LI 6:46 am, agree to hating the clue for DEBUGGER. It's like cluing Microsoft Word as "Program that writes books".
[Spelling Bee: Tues 0; streak 10.]
Just to escape boredom, when my brother was in the navy he partnered with a friend and they entered a bridge tournament cold. They were amazed when they finished 9th out of 50. So they got books (by GOREN, no doubt) and really applied themselves in practice and study for the next tourney. They came in 24th. Undaunted, they redoubled their efforts. They were obsessed with the game, and were confident they’d coast to victory at the next tournament. They came in 35th. They set bridge aside at that point.
My friend Robert grew up in Philly, but relocated to Vermont in the mid-1970s. So I when I visited him a few years later, I brought an enormous gorgeous cheesesteak sandwich from Eve’s in Norristown, PA, where I was working at the time. I don’t think I ever gave anyone a gift that was more appreciated. He carefully cut it up into segments he enjoyed with his breakfast each morning for four or five days. It had provolone on it. (We used to say, Man cannot live by provolone.)
Oy, @mathgent -- good luck with that. I've got a kidney stone just sitting there biding its time. I may be in trouble down the road.
AIX
And here I thought I was such a genius
@Gary J…you are humming on all cylinders today!
@Egs…agreed on DEBUGGER, but would add on an extra ER for good measure… Also, I hope u didn’t think I was throwing shade at yesterday’s puzzle…I got on my kick about ESQ but had a dentist appointment so just had to “edjamacate” any new attorneys that feel the need to add ESQ by their name.
@Anon 10:35…YES!
@Liveprof 2:15PM. Lovely story! I felt the same way when a friend brought me some stacked enchiladas with “Christmas sauce on the side (so they wouldn’t get soggy) from The Shed in Santa Fe. Little pie shaped wedges for breakfast. Friendship is golden.
I got the first two themers and most of the revealer (___BLEMISNOMERS) and decided they were just ediBLE. Which sort of works except for that damned cor anglais which is too crunchy to swallow. Liked the theme but, as others have said, did miss the "nor".
Loved the clue for ROME. Currently have a house under construction. Every time I ask one of the contractors for an ETA I get some version of "ROME wasn't built in a day". It's a f***ing house, guys, not an empire.
SWEETBREADS are delicious! There used to be a small french bistro up the street from where I presently reside while the house in the previous paragraph inches toward completion. The first time my wife and I went there we were the only patrons which afforded us time to converse with the affable owner. Somehow the subject of offal came up and we decided that there were two levels of offal and ris de veau (veal sweetbreads)occupied the top tier. He kind of looked misty-eyed and said that even though he had taped over it on the menu, he still had one serving in the cooler. Great! We'll take it. It was delicious. Cream sauce with fresh thyme and just a hint of fresh sage, a little black pepper. So, after we finished (my wife had the fish) I asked him why that last serving wasn't on the menu and he told me it was going to be his dinner. I felt bad, but he seemed to be OK and he asked me to phone well ahead to reserve a table and some ris de veau. Even though this west coast Canadian city was woefully undersupplied with makings of great French food, he would do his best to make my dinners memorable.
Has anyone ever had any EGGCREAMS?
Enjoyed the puzzle today. Even though I agree GOREN was a weird entry and I never read his column, I was able to infer it after having the middle three letters, partly based on seeing the name in newspapers over the years.
Glad to see my Palestinian grandfather's birth city of HAIFA included. It is set beautifully on a hillside facing the Mediterranean and was a trade center for centuries before the current state.
And they're off! Coming down the stretch it's neck and neck between "How is that ESS?" and "What's a DONEE." The crowd is getting HOARSE as the RACERs go over the line..."
I liked the theme a lot; it was fun to figure the answers out with as few crosses as possible. And while it's true that the ellipsis was misplaced, the clue worked fine without it.
The revealer, on the other hand, wasn't much. I mean, it describes the answers, but we've already been told that by each theme clue. Ideally you want the revealer to be a common phrase that really means something else, but is reinterpreted to fit the theme answers. This one doesn't add anything.
What I really disliked is NONE. The antithesis of umpteen ought to be a similar non-number. I tried Nada, which was not ideal, but was better than NONE.
GOREN was not only an old-time columnist, he devised the point system for evaluating the value of a bridge hand. I don't play the game any more, but as far as I know it's still used.
I love organ meats (or, as the English call them, offal); but it took me some time to see SWEETBREADS. For some reason I wanted it to be Welsh rabbit (aka rarebit) despite the fact that there's no meat in it. Well, that would be unusual, right? bit I had the RE in place, so I filled in raREbit, crossing that with Arabian numerals (ignoring the difference between numbers and numerals.) By the time I got that sorted that area of the grid was almost unreadable for the writeovers.
I went to college in my home state, Wisconsin, but there were lots of students from Brooklyn, who liked to talk about going to the candy store to get an EGG CREAM. I think for 10 or 12 years I just assumed it was a kind of milk shake with an egg in it, like egg nog without the rum.
@Rex, I followed your link for OOX TEP LER NON, and now am trying to figure out what the clues were. NON is fine, and OOX could be an unsuccessful game of tic-tac-toe; but TEP and LER? I need to know!
I had a rush of unexpected wavelength and blew through this one, loving it. Before I ever looked at a crossword, I remember asking Gran “why are these called Grapenuts? There aren't any grapes or nuts.” That’s bugged me ever since and I am delighted that it became a theme.
I liked seeing the ENGLISH HORN. Calling it a “horn” because of its shape isn’t a huge stretch, especially the original instruments. My music history memory seems to recall that the first metal horn was created in about 1500 BC, so perhaps originally calling any instrument with a bell-ish end a “horn” (and having the name stick) isn’t a complete impossibility.
The ENGLISH part of the HORN (cor anglais) may have become “English” from a mistaken translation from French. The bocal (tube to which the reed is attached) at the top is “anglé” in French and is pronounced just like the French word for English, “anglais. That’s one theory supporting calling the instrument the “English” Horn. Fitting it into this misnomer puzzle was excellent.
Although it was a speedy solve, it was fun, informative and very clever.
@Les = More
I'm an octogenarian, and when I was a teenager/young adult EGG CREAMS were very popular. Most drug stores (local & chains) had food counters where one could get sandwiches, hamburgers, milk shakes, EGG CREAMS, etc. When in high school, I worked in one as a soda jerk.
@jberg 3:13 re OOXTEPLERNON:
Tic-tac-toe loser
Im-ho-___, Boris Karloff's role in "The Mummy"
Celtic sea god
Vote in une législature
Yep, an English Horn is, indeed, a horn. It's not a brass horn or a French horn, but in the days of yore, most anything blown into to create a musical sound was a horn. Saxophones are still commonly called "horns" by their players as well.
The English part? Lots of folk etymology there, but Occam's razor says, since it's descended from the shawm, a Middle Eastern instrument brought back to Europe during the Crusades, it was played throughout all of that continent in the Middle Ages, including in England, so why not? Or, who knows? Maybe the Welsh pibgorn (horn pipe) plays a role here... we'll likely never know for sure.
i thought it was so cool that the themer was EDIBLEMISNOMERS which worked for a long while but then came ENGLISHHORN…
@Anon at 1:33 - Mr. T - actor best known for The A Team.
As a software engineer, I actually did get this one immediately… but as I was typing it I was grumbling about how wrong it was. “This is so wrong it has to be the answer!”
I understood the clue for ESS perfectly well…but that spelled-out letter thing has always been nails-on-a-chalkboard to me, ever since I was a kid instinctively loathing “See-Threepio” for C-3PO.
How many dagdum OGREs can they stuff into one month? There could stand to be a bit more contrarianism among constructors. (“People always throw an ENO/EIRE/UTE/TEC in a spot like this…I’ll be damned if I resort to it, even if I have to tear up the whole grid.”)
Dear Rex,
I’m from Philadelphia and can tell everyone that the answer to 12 Across is GLARINGLY (only because Philadelphians take this so seriously) incorrect!
A cheesesteak “wit” or “without” means with or without cheese wiz. Never onions!
The order would be, “I’ll have one wit, and onions”.
Thanks.
And épée
i liked the puzzle. i agree with Rex that "Bad Ones" is a clunker.
Joel Fagliano has never had a Philly cheesesteak. So bad!
In spite of the blemishes which Rex has enumerated, I found it to be an interesting theme and a pleasurable solve.
How cool to see my mom's maiden name MANN in a puzzle on my birthday!*
Of course, I spelled BOGey the way golfers do; my only writeover. That's right, I somehow didn't put down MISGuess at 37d. Still wonder why I didn't.
The dupes hit me right between the eyes. Pretty careless.
The "wit'" problem may be sub-regional. At my favorite cheesesteak place, the menu says "wit or witout ONIONS." Face it, some don't want the bad breath, others want the yummy taste. I'm in the latter group.
Nice open grid, with impressive 8- and 6-stacks in the roomy corners. The middle isn't all that chopped up, IMO. So I'll ignore the self-score at 7d and give him a par. Gotta watch those dupes.
Wordle birdie.
*Okay, since you ask, 84.
Well said. Agree 100%
The comment by Anonymous at 10:35 is so appropriate that it bears repeating:
"I enjoy every NYT crossword puzzle and have trouble understanding how folks get into a mindset of 'hating' or otherwise disliking/not enjoying a puzzle. It's a mental workout, and if something about it stumps me then I get to learn something new, such as the clever "two after 'cue'" clue.
Some may be harder than others, but my appreciation for the constructor's (and editor's) efforts, as well as my solving (mental) workout never strays into a negative area."
Exactly! Thanks anonymous for putting into words what I've so often felt when reading the comments section.
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