Ron of Tarzan on 1960s TV / WED 11-11-20 / Lye in chemistry class / Suave 1991 hit / Converted into fuel as coal / Former gridiron org for Memphis Maniax Orlando Rage / Series of bookings across America

Wednesday, November 11, 2020

Constructor: Alex Bajcz

Relative difficulty: Easy (faster than yesterday, and today's was 16 wide)

THEME: DOUBLEDAY (62A: Big name in American book publishing for 120+ years ... and a hint to the answers to the starred clues) — every theme answer is a "DOUBLE DAY" because it contains two words that can precede "DAY":

Theme answers:
  • HOLYFIELD (18A: *Four-time heavyweight champ nicknamed "The Real Deal")
  • WEDDING PRESENT (23A: *Gift that comes with a hitch?)
  • VETERANS MEMORIAL (38A: *Place that honors those who've served)
  • BUSINESS SCHOOL (51A: *Producer of a lot of suits?)

Word of the Day: HOBS (54D: Goblins, in folklore) —
  • noun A shelf or projection at the back or side of a fireplace, used for keeping food or utensils warm.
  • noun A tool used for cutting the teeth of machine parts, as of a gearwheel.
  • noun Chiefly British A hobgoblin, sprite, or elf.
  • noun Mischievous behavior. (American Heritage Dictionary, 5th ed.)
• • •

Either this one was much easier, comparatively, than either of the past two days' puzzles, or giving myself ten or so minutes to wake up in the morning before I start solving really makes a world of difference. Or both. This one has an oversized grid (16x15) and I still came in under my average Wednesday time. Since I struggled (again, comparatively) with the past two days' puzzles, I thought maybe acing a puzzle would make me like it more, but much as I wanted to like this one, there are just so many problems. The theme is not bad so much as bland. It's totally passable but not very interesting. This type of theme (both parts of an answer can precede / follow a word to make a familiar phrase) is old as the hills, and virtually every example of it that I've ever seen has two unfortunate qualities. First, the revealer doesn't have any "aha" magic in it. It definitely "reveals" what the theme is (and in today's case, you'd never know it without the revealer), but my reaction tends to be (as it was today) "oh..." rather than "oh!" Second, the theme answers, as a set, tend to be dull. I mean, HOLYFIELD looks *scintillating* next to all the rest of them. WEDDING PRESENT ... BUSINESS SCHOOL ... I almost fell (back) asleep just typing that last one out. VETERANS MEMORIAL is interesting only insofar as it makes the puzzle *look like* it's a Veterans Day-themed puzzle ... but then it isn't, which almost seems insulting. It's Veterans Day. Do a Veterans Day puzzle or don't (this is not the constructor's fault, btw). This puzzle just sorta waves at the holiday on its way to ... a publisher. Anticlimactic, in the extreme. Anyway, today, blandness reigns, themewise.

The fill is pretty weak all over, starting with COKED (!?!?!) (1A: Converted into fuel, as coal). I've only ever heard that used in phrases, usually preceding "up" or "out of his mind." Needed every cross to get it here. That whole corner should've been handled so much more smoothly. COKED is awkward, CAHN is crosswordese (especially unwelcome with ICAHN is somehow also in the grid), ELY is even more crosswordesey than CAHN, and DIF NEO OBOE aren't doing much for you up there either. Handling the "B" and the "K" seems to have presented real constructing problems, but these are problems worth working through. Smooth it out! Answers too often felt like they'd been grabbed out of a bag of Ye Olde Answeres of the Past. EPEE GOAPE ESS all in the same section, crossing the bizarre-looking "Var." ANTEED (borderline inexcusable, esp. in a grid that is already creaking under the weight of iffy fill). GYRE and NAOH and ENG and HOBS down below are not, esp. collectively, gonna brighten anyone's day. CAHN ICAHN ELY ELWES EVA ELON ... that's really too many overfamiliar faces. The most interesting thing in the grid was XIÈXIE, which I don't think I've ever seen and definitely needed every cross for (6D: Mandarin "thank you"). I'm not sure I *liked* it, I just know it broke up the monotony. I really hope you knew it, or remembered the XFL, because otherwise it really seems like you might have had a Natick* situation on your hands. Is that how you spell EYELETS? (31A: Holes in shoes). Wow, only just now realizing that EYELETS and aiglets are somehow both parts of shoes (well, aiglets are part of shoelaces, but same DIF). They could've made that less confusing (and by "they" I guess I mean "the word gods," I don't know). OK, that's all, Happy Wednesday.

Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld 

*uninferrable crossing of two not-universally-familiar answers, especially proper names

[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]


Joaquin 6:18 AM  

It took me longer than it should have to figure out the theme. I went off on a tangent after filling in 38-A (VETERANS MEMORIAL) thinking the puzzle was some sort of salute to vets. It is, after all, Veterans Day.

But since it wasn’t such a salute, I’ll provide my own tribute to all my fellow veterans: We are not losers, we are not suckers. We are patriotic Americans, each with our own special stake in this great experiment. Be proud to have served. I am.

C. Ujo 6:25 AM  

No labrahuahua today?

Anonymous 6:49 AM  

completely Naticked at the XFL/XIEXIE cross

Z 6:54 AM  

I solved this clockwise starting in the NE with AT MOST and was having a strong “can this get any more dated?” feeling. Then I hit Ron ELY. “Yes, it can get more dated.” Sigh.

I had to look up Taylor DAYNE. I wish I hadn’t. Strong “Tina Turner Wannabe” vibe in that video. That was her breakout hit from 1987. How did I miss it? Unfortunately, I didn’t miss RICO Suave. So a 30 year old ear worm and a 35 year old hit explains the musty smell. Pulling Ron ELY out should have been expected. I guess we are supposed to think using Thanos makes this puzzle fresh. Mostly, though, I just got annoyed that a perfectly okay word like FOE was PPPed by the clue.

I had the same reaction as Rex to the VETERAN’S MEMORIAL answer today. Yep, either do an 11/11 puzzle or don’t. Half gestures always have a taint of inauthenticity. Sort of an “Oh yeah, it’s VETERANS DAY, what do I have that I can regift?” feel. I’d also not run this puzzle on Good Friday. I would be okay with it running on Talk Like A PIRATE Day, though.

One more infelicity. HOLYFIELD is the only theme answer where we have a single word that we have to break apart to make the theme work. In this regard I think it is the best themer, but it is also inconsistent with the rest of the theme set.

RTWhite 7:05 AM  

From the constructor via : "FWIW, I also didn't know that 32-A was an alternate spelling, or I'd have replaced it... oh well." For some reason, this sentence now stands as the most depressing NYT quote ever!!

Anonymous 7:13 AM  

What’s a “present day?”

Z 7:18 AM  

Reading @RTWhite prompted me to go look at where the constructor starts with:
This puzzle is a blast from my past — I wrote and submitted this puzzle back in Summer 2013!

Alrighty then. The regifting vibe just got stronger.

pabloinnh 7:22 AM  

So I was sure I had a "gotcha" with OBOE, because I remember reading that the instrument in question was an English horn, almost the same but not quite. The wiki says that either what I read was wrong or my memory is faulty. Of course, it could be both. But I really don't think LSD was the "inspiration for Day Tripper". The lyrics make it pretty clear that the situation being described is not going to include anything involving an overnight, which is pretty much the definition of a "day tripper". Great song.

Needed the revealer to catch on to any theme at all, and nearly bought into the Veteran's Day idea but not for long. Haven't seen HOLYFIELD in forever so that took a while. Thought ABILITIES was a little weak as a descriptor for what superheroes have. Jeez, I've got abilities, and I bet you do too.

Serviceable Wednesday, AB, and thanks for including ELY, which is a town right across the river in VT.

Many many thanks to @Joaquin and all who have served.

RTWhite 7:25 AM  

@Z OMG I forgot all about that!! I can just hear him now: "What can I, a NYTXW constructor, do to celebrate the 95th Anniversary of the end of WW1?...."

Another Anon 7:28 AM  

It would be said "The present day" as in current times or nowadays. It could also be an adjectival phrase; e.g. present day technology

Grateful in Armonk 7:36 AM  

Present day America is a strange place indeed. Happy Veteran’s Day to all veterans out there and as an American, I’ll give a shout out to all the U.S. Vets.

Jim McConnell 7:53 AM  

I put the first x in xiexie just because I had the other five letters and guessed a doubling of the same syllable. But didn't feel confident at all about that and needed to see the answer grid.

bocamp 8:02 AM  

@Alex, this was a fine puzzle, but I butchered it badly. Mea culpa. I did enjoy the struggle, tho, and learned some things (maybe). LOL

Finished in well below ave. time, but…

Simple mistakes cost me dearly: biggest one was "eco" for "exo" (totally inexcusable), and avoidable had I paid attention to that spidey-sense when I dropped the "c" in (already had the "e" and "o"). Just see "eco" so often in the puzzles, that the one-track mind tells the fingers what to do. I think there was that slightest s.s. twinge when I dropped the "c" in.

Also had "Eli" in lieu of "Ely" and didn't bat an eye when I entered "Holifield". Was just going thru this puz so fast that common sense went out the window. Did the same with "antied". S.s. gave me a twinge again, but I just kept plowing on.

When I got to the "-FL" at 6A, I didn't know the league nor the "Mandarin thank you", so just dropped a "c" in to match the "c" from "eco" and thus, triple dnf. :(

Bottom line: pay attention the s.s. twinges and make a mental note to come back and deal with them. :)

Hard to remember: "Eli" vs "Ely" (so many of them); "Cahn", "Cohn", "Kahn".

New to me: "coked"; "XFL" (maybe heard of it, but…); "aurum"; "ferrum"; "anteed" (didn't pay attention to the Var. indicator); "super-ultra"; "Dayne Taylor"; "hobs" (although it makes sense; have heard hobgoblins, just not "hob" by itself); "see a man about a horse; "Rico Suave"; "naoh"; "Trent Reznor".

Going back to figure out the theme… Ah, got it. Nice. :)

Mario Lanza - Because you're mine (Sammy "Cahn" lyrics)

y.d. -3 :(

"That all of good the past hath had, remains to make our own time glad" - John Greenleaf Whittier

SouthsideJohnny 8:03 AM  

Kind of a stinker today, with Chinese, Latin, and Japanese items holding down the foreign contingent, and DAYNE and ELWES gunking up the grid (never heard of either - don’t know if they are B-list celebs or just never hit my radar screen). Starting off with COKED as clued seems a bit Friday-ish, and I guess GYRE can be used as a verb, but really, who cares ?

The puzzles haven’t been awful this week, but definitely not the best that the NYT can do. Everything seems rough and choppy. For example, instead of the usual hospital or nurse-orientated clues for ERS we get the completely contrived “Relatives of ‘ums’” - nice that they desire to break from the ordinary, but it seems like someone is trying too hard.

Frayed Knot 8:09 AM  

Agree with @ pabloinnh that Day Tripper has nothing to do with LSD.
Same misinterpretation occurs with One Toke Over the Line.

I only know the phrase from 10D as "see a man about a dog." Saying horse sounds like bragging.

ChuckD 8:11 AM  

Not a comfortable solve for me today - old school theme and oddball cluing and fill missed the spot. The center themer gave the appearance of a holiday puzzle but alas no. Agree with @Z regarding the singleton HOLYFIELD. Side eye to CAHN/ICAHN. Knew XIÈXIE but can see how that would be tough for some especially crossing the XFL outlier.

Celebrate and thank a veteran today - this will be my first without my dad who was in the Army Air Corp ‘41-45. That aside - my lasting memory of this day was in the late 70s - I was traveling with my parents in England. We were in a small village in the north outside York and took in their Remembrance Day ceremony. One of the few times I saw my father cry was when the pipes played Flowers of the Forest.

mmorgan 8:14 AM  

Lots of Naticks in there for me today, and the revealer did nothing to help me with the themers (since I already them all by then), but okay.

Anonymous 8:19 AM  

I'm going to have that Taylor Dayne song stuck in my head all day now

Anonymous 8:27 AM  

"Present day." Christmas, for example. Nyuk, nyuk (not "nuk, nuk" by the way).

Captain Obvious 8:31 AM  

Perhaps this. Was run today as it is famously the eleventh day is the eleventh month, a "double day".

kitshef 8:31 AM  

ANTEED and KILOWATTS. The former is self-evidently terrible. The latter – you get billed for KILOWATTHOURS, not KILOWATTS. So I originally put in Watt-hours, which is at least the right type of thing (energy, rather than power). You can pull a thousand kilowatts, but if you only pull it for one second, your bill will be negligible. If you pull that same thousand kilwatts for a day, you’re broke.

And just circling back to an earlier conversation, to me Watt and what have identical pronunciation.

XIEXIE? DAYNE? That’s getting awfully Fridayish.

sidneyellenwade 8:45 AM  

I got Naticked all over the place on this one. Including the XFL and XIEXIE cross. What the hell is ANTEED? Ugh.

Z 8:49 AM  

I had to go listen to Day Tripper after reading the Wikipedia article with all the “drug” quotes from Lennon and McCartney. I’ll buy that there was a little inside joke about “tripper,” but the lyrics are pretty obviously about a woman who won’t sleep with the singer.* “She’s a big teaser, yeah.” I am very much of the school of thought that writers may recall their inspirations, but are often not the best source for understanding the meaning of their own work. My touchstone on this is always Hemingway asserting that The Old Man and the Sea had no religious themes or motifs. Lennon may have meant to make sly allusions to LSD, but what he wrote is all about not getting to have sex with someone. Also, Wikipedia is a good place to start, but one shouldn’t rely solely on it for clues (tbf - in this instance the bad Wiki info is well sourced).

I’m a little slow on the uptake, but now I’m seeing a fault in having Day Tripper in a clue. Also, is Taylor DAYNE an easter egg or a fault?

@Anon8:19 - You could always click on the RICO Suave link in my first post to get rid of it. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

*Any one going to complain about the misogyny and violence in Beatles music?

Frantic Sloth 9:01 AM  

Hey look! It's a DOUBLEDAY puzzle! @Nancy Did you order up this little picnic just for us?? Thank you!

I didn't really pay much attention to the theme while solving. The revealer (appropriately placed) elicited a muted "Aha!" from me and that's pretty darn good - especially on the Wednesdee.
Am I not entertained? Why yes, yes I am.

There are the thoughts though...there are always "the thoughts":

Well, you'll have to forgive me, but I'm a little bit rusty on my Mandarin. LOL!!
Really, when I saw that clue, all I could do was throw up my hands, laugh, and hope for gentle crosses on my way back....okay! So now I know XIEXIE!

***Unholy Pun Alert***

(H)OLYFIELD might 'ave been called the "Real Deal", but I 'ear 'e wasn't so great.

***Pun Out***

ANTEED?? I honestly don't care that it's a real word. Get outta here with that nonsense!

Again with ELON Musk?? Does Shortz do these word runs deliberately? It's weird that it just keeps happening if he doesn't, so I'ma go with probably. What a geeky way to entertain oneself. 🤣 (Yeah. Known. I should talk.)

Bring back the dogs already.

It was fun to actually remember HOBS from a recent puzzle. Could have sworn those days were over. I'll have to wait for a reappearance of XIEXIE for that kind of hope to remain in my mind.

Nice to see Ron ELY stop by for old time's sake. And with just a few exceptions, the rest of the fill had enough chew for me to really enjoy this one.

Oh - one last nit:
ELWES is not TOO ENGlish. He's just the right amount for the "Dread Pirate Roberts".


EdFromHackensack 9:02 AM  

ERRors instead of ERRATA was my big error

Jay 9:05 AM  

Solvable. But so much trivia.

Nancy 9:17 AM  

I have ABILITIES. You have ABILITIES. We all have ABILITIES of some kind or other. Yet none of us is a superhero. What a dumb clue.

So now I'm expected to speak Mandarin along with all those other languages?

Let's see the boxing champs who roll trippingly off my tongue. MUHAMMED ALI, of course. JACK DEMPSEY. JOE LOUIS. MIKE TYSON, but only because he chewed off someone's ear. When HOLYFIELD came in, I recognized his name, but it was no help at all in solving that awful NW corner.

I feel that the NW corner, clued with so much pop culture (even the lovely OBOE was thusly clued), was a real 7D.

I knew GYRE from Yeats' "The Second Coming". So appropriate right now. The rough, slouching beast has extremely dangerous enablers at the State Dept, at the Justice Dept. and will very soon at the Pentagon. Don't even get me started on Congress. Read this poem and weep.

Joe Dipinto 9:20 AM  

It seems to me that the Beatles were always claiming this song or that song was "about drugs", when the lyrics didn't seem to back that up at all. Then there's "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds", which they claimed wasn't about drugs, despite the hallucinatory lyrics.

I don't see a problem running this puzzle on Veterans Day, even it's only featured in the theme in passing. (Speaking of which, sh!thead is taking time from dreaming up new lawsuits to go to Arlington Cemetery today. He will be the only Loser there.)

Anonymous 9:22 AM  

To “Z” and Rex: What’s wrong with dated puzzles? Does everything have to be “modern”?

RMK 9:24 AM  

Definitely an oboe.
Played by Mitch Miller.

Anonymous 9:25 AM  

I “Saw” him in other films without an English accent.

Anonymous 9:30 AM  

@Z, If you're going to go there regarding the Beatles don't forget THIS ONE. The subject matter doesn't bother me. I think these are great songs. It's art.

Ethan Taliesin 9:33 AM  

I thought it was hard for a Wed and ended up without a clean solve. I had AFL instead of XFL.

Nancy 9:35 AM  

What a coincidence!! It was HOLYFIELD's ear that Tyson chewed off and I didn't even remember that. Thanks for reminding me, @Frantic Sloth.

Also, @FS, thanks for reminding me that I worked for all those years at DOUBLEDAY. I got so carried away with other thoughts that, though I had initially planned to mention it in my comment, I forgot to.

And I completely missed the fact that HOLYFIELD is part of the theme. It's more subtle than the others and for that reason I think it's the most interesting themer.

RooMonster 9:43 AM  

Hey All !
@Southside Johnny
Don't know who CARY ELWES is? Get thee to a viewing of "The Princess Bride" immediately! Awesome movie, from 1987. He was also in the "Top Gun" spoof "Hot Shots!" opposite Charlie Sheen ala Val Killers role in the original. Plus, he was Robin of Loxley in Mel Brooks' "Robin Hood:Men In Tights", another hilarious movie.

Anyway, decent puz. Liked the shout-out to Veterans in the middle themer. Grid is 16 wide (which I noticed, notch one for the ole brain) to accommodate that middle themer. Have a nit with having both ICAHN and CAHN, though. Yeesh.

XIEXIE I've only ever heard (in movies, watch more movies, people!) but not seen spelled. It's pronounced more like "chi-chi", in our crazy American tongues. And who doesn't know XFL? Har. It's been tried twice as a league, and never materialized. First time was Vince McMahin from WWF (now WWE) starting it, and it lasted a few years, this last time it didn't even make it one season.

Overall, a decent WedsPuz.

Happy Veterans Day to all vets. Gonna go out and get my free haircut today! I was Army, late 80's.

There F'S

GILL I. 9:49 AM  

So...when I want to see a man about a horse I don't go to the stable? Why do I have to go to the TOILET? I don't need no stinking manure. It's not NIECIE thank you? I have to polish upon my Mandarin.
Gee, @Z...thanks for that DAYNE clip. Those lips were meant for smacking. At least I knew ELWES. Oh...I also knew Ron ELY from Tarzan. I loved Tarzan but I loved yummy Miles O'Keefe better. His pecs were outstanding.
Ok...let me get to this puzzle and its theme. Like everyone else, it didn't make sense until I came to DOUBLEDAY and even then I had to navel stare a while. The DOH took two coffee sips and then I let out a little DOH. Not bad; not excruciating, not yummy, just there.
I liked PONTIUS and OUR SAVIOUR because I'm not an atheist. And I like PIE PAN because I like PIE. And I'm glad you had VETERANS MEMORIAL. Yesterday was the Marine Corp 245th Birthday. Our son served for 20 years. They took him from me when he was only 17 because he graduated high school early. I begged him to go to Stanford on his scholarship but he wanted the Marines. They wanted him. He served 5 tours of duty and came back scarred. I hate wars. I have nothing but extreme admiration for those that have fought in them for us.
@C.Ujo....HA HA. at least Alext didn't add a doodle at the end......

Anonymous 9:50 AM  

I recall COKE as not so much a fuel, since coal already is of course, but rather the source of carbon to turn iron ore into steel. so far as I can tell, little COKE has ever been used as purely fuel for furnaces.

and, of course, the theme was irrelevant to the solve. how many hands up from those who got the theme early, and found it a useful hint to figuring out the themers? anyone?

pabloinnh 9:59 AM  

All this "Day Tripper" discussion made be go get my book on Beatles' Lyrics entitled, in a very straightforward fashion "Beatles Lyrics".

Here's what John had to say about his song:

"Day trippers are people who go on a day trip, right. Usually on a ferry boat or something. But it was kind of--you know, you're a weekend hippie. Get it?"

So a pretender leading poor John on. He also had another word originally for "big" in "she's a big teaser", same short i sound, which I will leave to your imagination. Deemed unsuitable.

Westword 10:05 AM  

Total Natuck at XFL crosss. Knew Taylor Dayne only because of Tig Notaro’s funny bit. So glad we have a president-elect whose Memorial Day observations today will be sincere, reverent, and heartfelt.

jae 10:10 AM  

Easy-medium. The NW corner was tough, but the rest was pretty easy. What @Rex said.

Newboy 10:25 AM  

STOP IT Alex! Like the XFL this grid is bankrupt in ways Rex has noted already. I was ready to be impressed by a VETERANS MEMORIAL before that option deflated like a Patriot football. Thanks for the effort to sneak in an ICAHN/CAHN DOUBLE DAY & XIEXIE that did get a smirk if not an aha.

Unknown 10:34 AM  

Are there other XW blogs that people visit that are informative and interesting, without the constant negativity? I think it's time for me to move on . . . I'm curious if folks have recommendations.

rex has become that tired old restaurant critic, who has eaten every dish under the planet, and is naturally bored by the 1000th iteration of a spinach salad with goat cheese. The problem is there are only so many letters in the alphabet, and they fit in only so many combinations. He's constantly seeking the fresh and new, which is awfully hard to do every day. Heck, I'm happy enough if a puz doesn't contain ETTA James or Brian ENO. Or EMO music, whatever that is. (P.S. I'd tell that restaurant critic it's time to retire, but hey, this is rex's party, so he can do what he wants.)

Many thanks.

Nancy 10:37 AM  

@Anon 9:30 -- Wow! Just wow! Truly scary and appalling.

I'm not and never was a Beatles fan, even though that's supposedly "my" era. Or at least one of my formative eras. Even so, I never developed a taste for rock, even the earliest rock, so my familiarity with Beatles songs is limited. My [younger by five years] brother waxed rhapsodic over Sergeant Pepper back in the day, which I hated. And I could only barely tolerate Abbey Road, which seemed less abrasive. After letting me pinpoint which songs I liked and which ones I didn't, my brother said: "I get it. You like McCartney's songs and you don't like Lennon's." I guess that's true; I never researched it.

But Anon's 9:30 link -- a song I've never heard or even heard of, thank God -- takes the cake. It joyously and infectiously celebrates the contemplation of killing a woman who leaves you for another man. It warns the woman that that's exactly what's going to happen, so she'd better watch out. I don't listen to rap or heavy metal or grunge or emo or whatever these new music genres are, but I challenge you to find anything more chilling than this Beatles lyric in any of them. And what makes it even more chilling and appalling is how good natured and infectious the rhythm and melody are. I hope the reason I don't know this song is because no one listens to it anymore and hasn't for many, many decades.

KnittyContessa 10:38 AM  

Natick for me! I really, really, really thought it was CFL and for some reason
I had EcOSKELETON and anything in Mandarin is a mystery to me. Is thank you in Mandarin common knowledge?

Really tough section for a Wednesday.

mathgent 10:46 AM  

The theme wasn’t exciting (few are) but it was right-on and well executed. Fine with me.

Liked seeing XIEXIE. We see Spanish words and French words but I don’t remember seeing Chinese before. Mandarin is the official language of China but Cantonese is what most Chinese-speakers here in San Francisco use. We have a Chinese Immersion public school here where instruction is almost entirely in Cantonese.

I’ve heard I’ve Got You Babe hundreds of times. Where does the OBOE come in? I remember it as all singing. Does the OBOE sound a lot different from other horns?

Nancy has bemoaned the fact that one of her puzzles took many months before being published. This one was in Will’s drawer for seven years!

Frantic Sloth 10:48 AM  

@C. Ujo 625am I see what you did there. Why do I want to pronounce that like Les Nessman?

@Nancy You're quite welcome. I had a little chuckle when I read your first (unadulterated) post!

@GILL I 949am Your son sounds like someone of great character and courage. I don't tend to use the term as readily as some, but it's an honor to call him a hero.

Veterans and their families are selflessly dedicated people who sacrifice so much for so little in return. It doesn't begin to repay our debt, but I hope they take heart in the massive accomplishment it is to make us stop and think about someone besides ourselves for one day. Bless you all.

Jeff Barnett 10:58 AM  

That “someone” was Holyfield

US Steel 11:16 AM  

Coke can be used to carbonized iron ore in blast furnaces for steel making and “Lower grade” coke can be used as fuel. I do think the clue is misleading because you don’t “coke“ an oven or furnace with coal. “Stoking” a furnace with coal makes more sense.

CDilly52 11:21 AM  

This was a head scratcher. Oldish and sadly, not a VETERANS DAY. tribute as it should be. So first off, thanks you veterans for your sacrifice and thanks for to your families as well.

While working as a therapist in Illinois, my daughter got to work with Operation Oak Tree, a program to help prepare families for their loved ones’ deployment and then to help the family re-adjust after the vet’s return home. The program was designed by our First Lady-Elect, Dr. Jill Biden and our former First Lady, Michelle Obama. My daughter, Kate got to meet both women and counts this couple years of service as among the best experiences in her life.

Six years later, she continues occasionally to hear from a few of the families. Working especially with the children of vets made my daughter realize that her skills in creative counseling, especially using the arts to create activities for therapeutic learning with primary school students led her to her true calling as a special educator. I know that on this day honoring our veterans, she is thinking of her own personal hero, her dad, who not only gave her a love of country, but love of people and community and a generous heart. How it was possible for my husband to serve in the US Air Force including two tours in Viet Nam and another decade in the Illinois Air Guard without losing his love and respect for all humanity, his generosity and his patriotism is beyond me. But he did and passed all of his good traits to our daughter.

I have met so many vets who struggle with a huge variety of negative impacts from their service and it is heartbreaking. Hopefully in the nearer than maybe last week future, we will focus on creating services that truly honor our veterans. Thank you all who served, and an equal heartfelt thank you to families who sacrificed along with their loved one/vet to keep America safe and free, and already and hopefully perpetually the greatest nation on earth. Bless you all and thank you fir your service!!

Shecky Wormwood 11:26 AM  

I find "BUSINESS DAY" somewhat questionable. Is this supposed to be understood as in "...takes two to three business days to process..," like a non-weekend, non-holiday day? In the singular, on its own and without that context I don't like it.

egsforbreakfast 11:38 AM  

No time like the PRESENT day, which is also VETERANS Day to have my WEDDING day. ICAHN GOAPE and have a FIELD day, but first I’ll go to the TOILET and BATHE, which I haven’t done since MEMORIAL Day. To make this a real HOLY day, my OATH will invoke OURSAVIOUR in a SHINTO ceremony. If this were a BUSINESS day, I’d be COKED up, but the LAB switched to making LSD, which I only use on SCHOOL days. Maybe I’ll make it a DOUBLEDAY and do both.


Joe Dipinto 11:45 AM  

@Mathgent – in "I Got You Babe" the oboe plays the little two-note figures that underscore the title words - "I got you babe"(ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba), "I got you babe"(ba-ba ba-ba...etc.)

There is also a bassoon playing the honking low note on the 1 of each bar.

Unknown 11:49 AM  

@CDilly52. Why must today's puzzle be a tribute to veterans?

Douglas 11:55 AM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carola 12:02 PM  

I thought the theme was an excellent example of its kind, maybe because my reading the clue for the reveal and then looking back at the theme answers, brought an immediate "DOUBLEDAY!" I know, not the world's greatest stroke of genius, but I'm appreciating all small pleasures at the PRESENT DAY. I liked the inclusion of the days that aren't actual 24-hour days (FIELD, BUSINESS). The neighbors TOILET + MORASS made me laugh, remembering supervising latrine digging as a Girl Scout camp counselor way back when.

Help from previous puzzles: XFL, ELY, FOE. No idea: XIEXIE (appropriately placed next to FELONY (in grid-constructing terms), given its uninferrable cross with XFL).

Douglas 12:03 PM  

I enjoyed this puzzle - it was my 1,000th puzzle! I have a question for you veteran NYTXW solvers. (this is my first comment) On my phone app, where I usually solve, it says I have a 99.7% solve rate, but I have completed all the puzzles with a star in each. Why not 100%? I'm a huge Beatles fan and Day Tripper is definitely about drugs, as per John Lennon.

Whatsername 12:18 PM  

When I saw 38A I was hoping for a nice tribute puzzle but no such luck. Still I liked the theme and the revealer was apt and well positioned. Can’t say I was too much in love with the remainder of the fill however. ANTEED Sounds like a verb of convenience and two Natick areas. I had no idea on the “Humanities subj.” at 57A and NAOH and GYRE are not commonplace enough to guess. Then the NW with three Proper names crossing a Mandarin phrase was really killer. Not the best day for me. Oh well.

With my sincere gratitude, wishing a Happy Veterans Day to all who served.

CDilly52 12:23 PM  

Oh thanks for that, @Joe Dipinto 11:45
🎶 now I have that 👂 🐛 firmly embedded!

Sir Hillary 12:25 PM  

Theme holds together well enough, although its type is not very original.

But the fill was a total bummer -- COKED, XFL, NEO, EXO, ANTEED (!!), RIA, ESS, YUK, ENG, ERS, ELY, DIF, DAYNE, XIEXIE, USTOUR, APP, NAOH, GYRE and CAHN/ICAHN all in the same grid is not good.

I did a DOUBLEtake at the TOILET clue. Hilarious, but I'm surprised Will went with it. My brother-in-law, whenever he left the room to, you know, would always reference my oldest daughter: "I'm going to see Amanda 'bout a horse." Highbrow humor for sure!

Anoa Bob 12:27 PM  

Hey, I knew GYRE, at least as a noun, from learning about the Atlantic and Pacific GYREs. The former is responsible for warm water flowing north (the Gulf Stream) along the east coast and the latter keeps cold water flowing south along the west coast.

So CAHN and ICAHN walk into a bar....

I give a sharp salute to all yous veterans out there. I did a hitch in the Navy, 64-70. Mustered out as an E-5 Sonar Technician. An E (for enlisted)-5 in the Navy is called a Second Class Petty Officer. I never cared for the "second class" or the "petty" part.

I heard an apt description of what it is like to serve in the military from an Army veteran. He said "I wouldn't take a million dollars for the experience but I wouldn't do it again for a million dollars".

emily 12:27 PM  

Me, too. This week has been pretty hard, just when I thought I was getting better!

Paul Rippey 12:27 PM  

Me too. Otherwise piece of cake.

Anonymous 12:29 PM  

Agree that this was easier than the last two days, but disagree with how hard the previous days were.
How does Ron Ely stay in the crossword puzzle? The guy is famous for a show that was on for three seasons in the 60s. He was in the news last year when his son murdered his wife and then the son was shot to death by the police that responded. I'm guessing most here didn't hear about that. How famous could he be?

emily 12:32 PM  

My dad, a DDay vet/farm boy used the phrase ” I need to see a man about a horse” made me smile, in remembrance.

Greater Fall River Committee for Peace & Justice 12:33 PM  

Well, I watched Tarzan on TV with Ron ELY pretty often the year I was 12 or so, and it was actually on my mind lately. You see, I'm a Congregational Church organist, and we have been celebrating the Pilgrims coming over on the Mayflower in the year 1620, 400 years go. They arrived in November, which was definitely bad planning. Only a little over a half of them survived the winter. Anyhow I have been looking for hymn/songs appropriate for Pilgrims, and remembered 'I am Bound for the Promised Land' which I first heard on that Tarzan show. They had an episode which involved a bunch of clueless Christian missionaries padding around Africa singing that song. In a minor key. It was the first I heard the song, and it stuck with me that way. As an adult church musician I have seen it often but always in a major key, which does not seem right to me. It seems to be a 20th century adjustment. Slogging through deserts and jungles hoping to find salvation seems to me to be a fundamentally bleak pursuit, the minor key seemed right. The modern bouncy version is just wrong. Not that I imagine you folks want to come away with me on this.

Blackhat 12:44 PM  

12 names, 2 foreign words...

And a special addition to today's list, I guess we now get to just make up words and put them in the grid.

So...1 made up POS (Seriously?!!)

Anonymous 12:51 PM  

not that I remembered it; I read it in high school after all, but GYRE has been stuck in my low brain stem ever since. kind describes our world of The Orange Sh!tgibbon (not my coinage, but I cleave)

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Yeats, 'The Second Coming'

Xcentric 12:55 PM  

So a double misspelling on a cross took me forever to find before this puzzle fell -I had Holifield Eli instead of Holyfield Ely. Arghh!!
Oh well, at least I didn’t ask Uncle G.

Maybe . . . 12:57 PM  

Bituminous coal is heat-processed, i.e., COKED, into coke in coke ovens. Then the coke is used as the fuel to smelt limestone, iron ore, and the coke into molten iron, which is in turn used to make steel.

Richard 1:10 PM  

Somebody wake me when LMS comes back on a regular basis.

Teedmn 1:12 PM  

My favorite clue/answer pair today was 46D's "It's found beneath the crust" for PIE PAN. We had a bumper crop of apples on our apple tree this year and we processed enough apples for perhaps 10 pies. We've never been big dessert people, but we no more finish an apple pie than my husband starts defrosting another batch of pie filling. At least it's given me time to perfect my olive oil pie crusts, which can be every bit as flaky as one made from lard. I pretend it's healthier :-).

I was surprised to see that XIEXIE has been in the puzzle once before, albeit in 2006. It looks completely foreign to me (har).

Thanos was a gOd and lye was a base at one point in my solve but it all filled in properly. RICO Suave, never heard of it before.

Thanks, Alex Bajcz.

sharon's 1:27 PM  

Thanx for the Mario Lanza link

GILL I. 1:37 PM  

@Frantic...Thank you, amiga. Yes, he's a hero. So many of them are. :-)

JOHN X 1:48 PM  

Today is Veteran's Day.

Speaking as a veteran, on this day, which is my day, I'd like to ask all you crossword puzzle wordsmiths if you know the difference between an an officer and an enlisted man.

You have 15 seconds to think about it.

game show thinking music plays for 15 seconds

Enlisted men are legally required to be fed three meals a day and have a roof over their head every day. That's the contract they sign with the government. There is no guarantee on the quality of this meals or the roof itself, but they have to be there.

Commissioned officers, on the other hand, are required to pay for their room and board. Every meal and their rent is deducted from their paycheck.

I was a Nuke Machinist's Mate Second Class in the submarine service. I made six patrols on a boomer, 300 days of my life underwater before I was 23 years old. Does that make me better than anyone? No, probably not. Does this make me better than anyone on this day? Hell yeah!


bocamp 2:02 PM  

God bless all my fellow veterans; trust you're all having a great day! 🙏

And thanks to all who have honored us with their gracious comments! :)

@Douglas 12:03 PM

Welcome! Enjoyed your blog; lovely family. :)

Can't help you with the missing .3%, but you know in your heart you're 100%; that's what counts. Chalk it up to the mysteries of cyberspace. LOL

n.p.g. -10

"How important it is for us to recognize and celebrate our heroes and she-roes!" (Maya Angelou)

"As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them." (JFK)

Giovanni 2:10 PM  

I DNFed at XIEXIE. I had NIEXIE and NFL because I made an educated guess that it was NI as in the NI from NI HAO MA, and NFL is a thing

I'm kind of new so I didn't know CAHN but I guessed. I just learned ICAHN and RIA so there's that to be happy with. RIA is so easy now after the 30th time.
It's interesting that Shortz held on to this for 7 years.
@great river I enjoyed your Tarzan story. It's always cool when something you were just thinking about appears in a puzzle.
I was reminded of my deceased dad twice while solving this. First, I thought of Johnny Weismuller, who played Tarzan but was also a great swimmer. My father was a huge fan and met him in Vegas in the 70s. He got his autograph, which is why I know about him. But Weismuller didn't fit.
My dad also used to say "I'm going to see a man about a horse" as well as "if anyone calls tell them I'm in disposed". That one kills me!

bocamp 2:11 PM  

@sharon's 1:27 PM 👍


TTrimble 2:13 PM  

@Frayed Knot 8:09AM
Not sure I follow you on misinterpretation. If Wikipedia quoted Brewer of Brewer & Shipley's "One Toke Over the Line" fame accurately, then the song definitely has to do with marijuana use.

However, and hilariously, Lawrence Welk didn't get that memo.

Also: "see a man about a horse" is definitely a thing. I've never heard the "see a man about a dog" variation (is that where men discuss betting on races, in the men's room? never heard a woman use the expression, and think I'd bust out laughing if I did).

bertoray 2:25 PM  

My thoughts went there too as the rough beast slouches towards the exit.

Hungry Mother 2:25 PM  

_FL coulda been any letter for me. Also had nUK instead of YUK. I had to look at the calendar twice.

Anoa Bob 2:27 PM  

@JOHN X, as I recall, we called the Navy's guaranteed food and shelter for enlisted personnel "three hots and a cot". In my experience the Navy's reputation for reliably serving up good chow was well deserved. Even when our ship was off the coast of North Vietnam exchanging gunfire with the NVA, we could still count on good grub. A tasty, warm meal is a great morale booster.

Hungry Mother 2:29 PM  

U.S. Army 1961-64. Served in Thailand all of 1963. Not a sucker.

Sixthstone 2:33 PM  

Late to the party today, but alas... there is no party after all. The puzzle is bone dry for a libations afficianado and pretty dry in general. The only potential escape in this one is a TAD of LSD. Not even a snack to be had in this puzzle, just an empty PIEPAN.

Kudos for some nice global answers though: XIEXIE, SHINTO, etc.

Anonymous 2:45 PM  

@Richard Good rule of thumb: don't insult someone, then ask them for a favor. We all miss her.

CuppaJoe 2:58 PM  

I did Natick on Xiexie and XFL even though I live where Mandarin is spoken but know it only audibly, didn’t know that is the word they wanted, and had no idea how to spell it. All I know about sports I learned from crosswords so now I know XFL.

Dayne and anteed also got me even though I expect ante in every puzzle. Spell check doesn’t accept anteed.

Otherwise an easy one.

JC66 3:03 PM  

Donald Trump was the owner of the XFL franchise in NYC. It went bust, just like many of his other businesses.

Masked and Anonymous 3:07 PM  

Similarly-like to @Teedmn, M&A didn't know RICO & XIEXIE. Sorta knew HOB(goblin)S. The rest was pretty smooth solvequest sailin, at our house.

staff weeject picks: EXO & XFL. Absolutely essential, to preserve XIEXIE. Which is absolutely raised-by-wolves great.

Post-solve, M&A immediately instituted a semi-exhaustive search to find other "easter-egg" themer entries…

* PI(DAY) & RATE(DAY). …honrable mention to: PIE(DAY) & PAN(DAY), therefore.
* D(DAY) & EER(DAY).
* TOIL(DAY) & ET(DAY). Cuz TOIL(DAY) is kinda like LABOR(DAY).

… in other words, didn't find all that much.

Thanxiexie for the fun, Mr. Bajcz. Needed it.
And Happy Veterans Day to all my fellow Vets. Luv y'all.

Masked & Anonymo5Us

p.s. Kinda nice not to have all them political TV ads anymore, tellin us how bad both choices of candidates for each office were. Now the office holders (& Trump, who has a king's-X?) can just resume tellin us how bad the opposition party is, again. [YUK]


Anonymous 3:25 PM  

You don't know what you're talking about. Trump never had anything to do with the XFL. Either iteration.
I assume you've mistaken the XFL for the USFL. The fact that the two leagues are separated by two decades, myriad rules differences, funding, media rights, roster size, and league structure makes the mistake an easy one to make.

Trump of course famously did buy a team in the USFL. But not in New York, new Jersey. thats why they were called the Jersey Generals. And like most of the other teams in the league, financially viable. The league's downfall was abandoning their Spring schedule to play in the Fall. That of course meant competing directly against the NFL. Arguably the worst decision in the history of American sport ( Save the grotesque and demonic the DH)

In any event, the real question is how much blame to lay at Trump's feet for the League's disastrous decision to bring suit against the NFL. You probably don't recall, but the USFL won its case against the NFL. And was awarded $1 in damages, trebled.
It is the epitome of a pyrrhic victory. And of course, the most important event in one of The NFL's principle attorneys in that case. A guy name Paul Tagliabue, who in a matter of 5 years would become the NFL's commissioner.
The USFL never recovered. And nobody remembers their lawyer's name.

Frantic Sloth 3:27 PM  

@TTrimble 213pm Welcome back! I hope it's to stay. That clip...I can only attempt to return the favor by saying "I gotta see a man about a horse." 🤣🤣

Well, nobody has posted it yet, so here is Tig Notaro's Taylor Dayne bit. I would suggest skipping the music portion of the clip, but maybe that's just me. Only it isn't.

Frantic Sloth 3:30 PM  

Oops! Apologies @Westword 1005am I meant to mention that it was your post that reminded me of the Tig bit. Thanks!

Z 3:34 PM  

@blue Anonymous 9:22 - GYRE seems pretty “dated” but I have no problem with it. Cary ELWES is always welcome in my opinion even though The Princess Bride is just as “dated” as Tell it to my Heart. When I say “dated” (not speaking for Rex here, but this is how I interpret his use of the word, too) it’s shorthand for “old and not especially cross-generationally interesting.” I remember RICO Suave despite desperately wishing I didn’t, but I don’t expect anyone under the age of 40 to remember it. The same is true for Ron ELY and anyone under 60. But my 20-something sons and their friends can all quote lines from The Princess Bride (and a few can quote Yeats, too) despite it coming out before any of them were born.
I should add, too, that balance and density matter. One Ron ELY is fine if the other PPP has lots of cultural currency. But when your most modern entry is slipped into the clue for FOE...

@Douglas - See @Joe Dipinto9:20. I don’t think you can take any interview quote from any of them at face value.

I would not have wanted a tribute puzzle today. Tribute puzzles are hard to pull off successfully at any time and I just don’t know how you do justice to Veterans Day in a crossword. But, again, if you’re going to do a tribute puzzle, actually do a tribute puzzle. Pulling out a puzzle you accepted 7 years ago seemingly because it happens to mention Veterans Day is the worst. Or maybe it is purely happenstance that VETERANS DAY makes an appearance, in which case that would be the worst.

JOHN X 3:34 PM  

Didn't the mysterious M&A also serve in the U.S. Army?

I'm trying to remember from many posts ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

JOHN X 3:43 PM  

Warrant Officers are some sort of bastard child in-between thing. As an enlisted man, we saluted commissioned officers (heck they had to pay to be there) and most of my officers were Naval Academy graduates and they were pretty good leaders, but we were never sure if we were required to salute warrant officers. Just to be safe we didn't.

foxaroni 3:59 PM  

'Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimbel in the wabe....

It was always "see a man about a dog" for me. The first time I heard it, in seventh grade many many many years ago, I said "Wow, can I see it? I want to come see it, too." Hilarity (on their parts) ensued.

Blessings and thanks to all veterans. I recommend Peter Jackson's film "They Shall Not Grow Old," about WW 1.

Never figured out the theme and left the "X" in _FL/_IEXIE blank. Still, enjoyed the puzzle.

Thanks, Mr. Bajcs.

JC66 4:17 PM  

@Anon 3:25

Thanks for the correction. My first mistake this year; ;-)

Anonymous 4:20 PM  

re 59D gyre

Maybe someone has pointed this out, but *gyring* is what the slithy toves do in the wabe. They also gimble. Gyring has pretty much come to be accepted, but gimbling is still controversial, even if the union has been consecrated by a sacrament. Paul VI specifically condemned the practice, in his often overlooked *Exsecrabilis usus in (ut dicunt) wabe*.

Anon. i.e. Poggius

Anonymous 4:31 PM  

The USFL never recovered. And nobody remembers their lawyer's name.

not Roy Cohn? or was he dead already?

bocamp 5:14 PM  



JOHN X 5:16 PM  

I say that all my officers were Naval Academy graduates but that's not really true. The Naval Academy graduates really were good officers, but our skipper was Commander Ward from the University of Iowa and our Engineer was Lieutenant Commander Mauney who was a rambling wreck from Georgia Tech. Lieutenant Rotton was my division leader and he was an Annapolis graduate.

Anonymous 5:31 PM  

You’re too gracious. You shoulda kicked my ass on the lawsuit business. There’s no way of knowing, but very credible sources say Trump was the prime mover of not only the colossally stupid move to the Fall schedule, but the anti trust suit which was the de facto ruin of the league.

Anon 4:31,
Not sure what you’re saying. But whatever it is, it isn’t nice.
Cohn did a lot of despicable things. The kind of fellow I’d cross the street to avoid. But that makes me a jerk. Maybe you’re one too.
In 1984 Cohn was diagnosed with AIDS. He was disbarred the by 1986, the time of the USFL/ NFL suit. And died that same year. Even bad lawyers, with worse morals are human beings. They’re not dogs. Or punchlines. And certainly not when they’re no longer alive to defend themselves. Cohn may have been reprehensible, but there’s nothing I own that I wouldn’t wager that we’re he alive, he’d whip you in any argument, lawsuit or intellectual pursuit you could name.

TTrimble 5:36 PM  

@Frantic Sloth
Oh, that Taylor Dayne! I remember seeing that Tig Notaro bit (actually more than one version), and my god what a funny story. TN is just brilliant.

Good to have you back as well! Looks like a number of people have been taking a break.

Hey there! y.d. -1. Today's is a weird one.

Anonymous 5:47 PM  


did just a bit of innterTube searching (having just seen 'Where's My Roy Cohn' on the teeVee and not seen this event mentioned, I posed the question), and found a story about the suit. it was Cohn and another lawyer, Myerson. the Orange Sh!tgibbon (not my coinage, but I cleave) lost bigly, as usual. Cohn may have died by the time the suit was concluded, but the reporting is that he was on the case at the beginning.

" But whatever it is, it isn’t nice."

I don't see what's not nice about asking whether Cohn was the lawyer; he was. a completely innocuous question; at the time I didn't remember. I was commenting on the previous comment: "And nobody remembers their lawyer's name" anyone who knows about the Orange Sh!tgibbon (not my coinage, but I cleave) knows about Cohn, in general.

kitshef 5:55 PM  

Constructor's notes say that when Alex found out this older puzzle was going to run, he asked to revisit the fill and clues. HOLYFIELD was then a late substitute for the original GREEN FLAG in that spot.

Interestingly, almost all the objectional fill (CAHN, ELY crossing HOLYFIELD, XIEXIE crossing XFL, KILOWATTS is in that one section. Makes me wonder if the puzzle would have been better as originally designed.

GHarris 6:21 PM  

Let’s take comfort in knowing that the rough beast is slouching toward Bethlehem not to be born but to be buried.

JC66 6:31 PM  


You've got me confused with @Anon 5:31. I never commented on Roy Cohn.

Anonymous 7:11 PM  

Anon 5:31,
You’re cleaving to idiocy. Cohn was not the lawyer in the case in question. When that clase was being tried, he was dying of AIDS.

Are you kidding? I’ve been quite clear that I’m sympathetic to Cohan’s disease. He was despicable owing to his decades of dirty work, from McCarthy henchman on. He was a swine. A nogoodnik, truly reprehensible. He was also a human being with intrinsic dignity. His homosexual acts are not at issue.

Anonymous 7:33 PM  

Are you saying Cohn was reprehensible

(not 7:11; get me a Slurpee) I said not a word about Cohn, now did I? prove that I did. he was, in fact, a total shit, irregardless of his orientation. the Orange Sh!tgibbon (not my coinage, but I cleave) is as evil as he is from tutelage by Cohn. if you like the Orange Sh!tgibbon (not my coinage, but I cleave), for some reason, then you'll revere Cohn. I don't. that has nothing whatever to do with his orientation; which he denied to his dying day.

this piece establishes that Cohn was one of the attorneys:

GILL I. 8:46 PM  

I go to meet a man with a horse, come back and find this Cohn/Cohan homosexuality conversation. Did I miss something? I hope it was juicy.....

Anonymous 9:00 PM  

Anon , 5:47
The USFL on their suit against the NFL. That’s the irony. Try to keep up.

JC66 9:26 PM  

Hey, @GILL I

Lets talk about Scotch.

GILL I. 9:31 PM  

@JC...You're on.....Talisker...maybe? Or we can always do a dry martini not shaken?

JC66 9:46 PM  


I feel bad because I started the whole Roy Cohn thing by confusing the XFL with the USFL.

Scotch or Gin, your choice.

One of the moderators. 10:02 PM  

Learn to read better and be less mean and I won’t delete your comments. Hopefully what is left makes sense.

Anonymous 10:11 PM  

JC 66,
Nope. You’re guilt free.
If you and Gill get together for a Talisker, do it at the distillery. It’s on the Isle of Skye. Less than a mile from it, just up the hill, is one of my favorite places on Earth to eat. I think it’s called the shed. And it’s no more than that. But my God!! The oysters.....

I shouldn’t have corrected you .Your error was benign. More a keyboard mistake than anything else ( I’m setting aside the gratuitous insult top of 45😉)
But if you drink that most awesome of the brown liquors, cheers!

Igneous 10:14 PM  

Nuk nuk nuk. Always was and always will be.

GILL I. 10:26 PM  

@Anony 10:11. I hope you will join us? I die for oysters and maybe the Isle of Skye....

Garrett W. 11:52 PM  

The opposite of “dated” isn’t modern, it’s interesting (or fresh).

Frantic Sloth 11:53 PM  

@GILL I 846pm Everyone knows that Roy Cohn and George M Cohan were Yankee Doodle Dandies who hooked up in the back alleys of Broadway in order to perform their craven acts of sin-love on each other. Try to keep up.

jae 2:18 AM  

Re: Military Service CVs

Petty Officer 3rd Class Journalist aboard the USS Galveston CLG-3.
1965 to 1967.
Summer of 1966 - Midshipmen cruise to Hawaii and San Francisco.
Summer of 1967 - Mediterranean cruise briefly interrupted by the 6 day war but ending with beach time in Majorca. I went back to college in September with a fine tan.

Steve 7:31 AM  

Got coked first off.In my epidemiology course I use the classic cohort studies of lung cancer in Pittsburgh coke oven workers as teaching material and exercises.

dusky 11:09 AM  

I know this is late (next day) and I did not read all of the comments yesterday when I read the blog on my cell and I'm hopeless with the keys here I am at computer today.

Did any not point out during the discussion about LucyintheSkywithDiamonds...first letter of the main words is LSD? I'm a Seventy-something puzzler so I love the old-skewing clues. When the song came out none of us doubted what it referred to.

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