Enemy of Hop-o'-My-Thumb / WED 6-19-24 / Abolitionist senator Charles / Creatures that kill Laocoön in the "Aeneid" / Good guess for a single letter in a cryptogram / Rocket-shaped frozen treat / Gorilla who was said to have developed the vocabulary level of a three-year-old human

Wednesday, June 19, 2024

Constructor: Brad Wiegmann

Relative difficulty: Easy


THEME: compound words clued via "[verb] + [verb]" phrases — clues are familiar "[verb] and [verb]" phrases; the first [verb] clues the first part of the answer, the second [verb] clues the second part of the answers, and you end up with a compound answer that is a familiar word entirely unrelated to the clue phrase:

Theme answers:
  • 16A: Wait + see (STOPWATCH) ("Wait" = "STOP!" / "see" = WATCH) 
  • 25A: Give + take (HANDHOLD) ("Give" = HAND / "take" = HOLD)
  • 36A: Kiss + tell (SMACKTALK) ("Kiss" = SMACK / "tell" = TALK)
  • 51A: Hit + run (SLAPDASH) ("Hit" = SLAP / "run" = DASH)
  • 60A: Cut + paste (CHOPSTICK) ("Cut" = CHOP / "paste" = STICK)
Word of the Day: Laocoön (24D: Creatures that kill Laocoön in the "Aeneid") —
Laocoön
 (/lˈɒkˌɒn, -kəˌwɒn/; Ancient GreekΛαοκόωνromanizedLaokóōnIPA:[laokóɔːn], gen.: Λαοκόοντος) is a figure in Greek and Roman mythology and the Epic Cycle. Laocoön is a Trojan priest. He and his two young sons are attacked by giant serpents, sent by the gods when Laocoön argued against bringing the Trojan horse into the city. The story of Laocoön has been the subject of numerous artists, both in ancient and in more contemporary times. [...] Virgil used the story in the Aeneid. According to Virgil, Laocoön advised the Trojans not to receive the horse from the Greeks. They were taken in by the deceitful testimony of Sinon and disregarded Laocoön's advice. The enraged Laocoön threw his spear at the Horse in response. // Minerva then sent sea serpents to strangle Laocoön and his two sons, Antiphantes and Thymbraeus, for his actions. [...] The story of Laocoön is not mentioned by Homer, but it had been the subject of a tragedy, now lost, by Sophocles and was mentioned by other Greek writers, though the events around the attack by the serpents vary considerably. The most famous account of these is now in Virgil's Aeneid where Laocoön was a priest of Neptune (Poseidon), who was killed with both his sons after attempting to expose the ruse of the Trojan Horse by striking it with a spear. // Virgil gives Laocoön the famous line
"Equō nē crēdite, Teucrī / Quidquid id est, timeō Danaōs et dōna ferentēs"
[Do not trust the Horse, Trojans / Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even bearing gifts.]
This quote is the source of the saying: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts." (wikipedia)
• • •

[Laocoön and His Sons]
About as boring a puzzle as I've ever done. It was even boring to describe. I guess it's a neat trick, in its way, but as a crossword theme, it did nothing. Solving those answers involved breaking the clue down into two clues, two very very ordinary clues for very very ordinary short answers. "Wait" = "STOP!," "take" = HOLD, blah blah etc. And then you could kind of infer the overall answer when the short definition parts were not completely transparent. Maybe it's very hard to find "[verb] + [verb]" phrases that you can do this with. I don't know. But what I now know is that I don't care. Just because a theme concept is extremely restrictive doesn't mean that it is at all interesting to solve. It's not that this puzzle is badly made. It's not. But like dry toast, it really needs butter, or peanut butter, or (as I prefer) butter and then peanut butter (Me to my wife the first time I saw her do this: "Geez, how much fat do you need?" Boy did I eat (and re-eat) those words). It didn't help my enjoyment that a couple of the theme answers felt backwards. Words made from reverse verb phrases. A couple might hold hands, of course, but "hand-hold" as a verb is less common / slightly more awkward ("handhold" is apparently also a dance concept, if that ... helps). I recognize that SMACKTALK is a thing, but I'm way more likely to encounter it in verb form ("to talk smack"). (Side note: as I look it up now, I'm seeing that SMACK TALK is not a compound word, but two words, which kind of wrecks the theme consistency). It's all technically defensible, but not exactly on the money. 


The fill on this one, also, totally run-of-the-mill and forgettable. Even though I don't particularly like the theme, I do like SMACK TALK and SLAPDASH as standalone answers. They've got great energy, and are fine additions to any grid. The only other answer in this grid I was particularly happy to see was SEA SERPENTS. I have taught the Aeneid more than probably any other single work of literature (except maybe Sir Gawain and the Green Knight), and that scene with Laocoön gets me every time. It is brutal in a way that the clue fails to capture, and perhaps cannot capture. It's one thing to get killed by SEA SERPENTS (I suppose) it's another, much worse thing to get killed by SEA SERPENTS as a direct result of trying to tell your fellow countrymen the truth (about the damned Trojan Horse, which he struck with a spear); and it's still another, much much worse thing to get killed by SEA SERPENTS after having watched those same serpents first tear both of your sons apart right in front of your eyes. Like, Minerva does not mess around. Just brutal. There's a reason Laocoön is such an iconic figure (in art and popular culture). He's like this mix of Cassandra (doomed to tell the truth and have no one believe her) + extreme paternal suffering. The Trojans watch all this serpent-induced carnage go down and are like "holy *$%! ... wow ... so ... uh ... be nice to the Horse, I guess?" Extremely violent. But entertaining. Kinda like MMA, but, you know, fictional.


Notes:
  • 21A: Touch of color (TINCT)— I went with the much more common TINGE. This, plus the awkwardness of HANDHOLD and the trickiness of the BUTTONS (10D: Remote possibilities?) clue and the fact that I did not know Charles SUMNER (31A: Abolitionist senator Charles) made the NE the hardest part of the puzzle by far (not actually hard, just harder than the rest)
  • 13A: "Never get involved in a land war in ___" (advice in "The Princess Bride") ("ASIA") — a line delivered memorably by the great Wallace Shawn:
  • 53A: "Fiddler on the Roof" setting (RUSSIA) — if the answer hadn't filled itself in easily from crosses, if you'd just given me this clue and an empty six boxes, I'd've guessed SHTETL (crossword brain!). Very cute that this "Fiddler"-related answer crosses MATCHMAKERS (9D: Fixer-uppers, of a sort):
  • 68A: Enemy of Hop-o'-My-Thumb (OGRE) — you know, I have absolutely no idea what Hop-o'-My-Thumb is, despite seeing him / her / it mentioned here and there my whole life. Looks like it's one of Perrault's classic fairy tales.
Hop-o'-My-Thumb (le petit Poucet) is the youngest of seven children in a poor woodcutter's family. His greater wisdom compensates for his smallness of size. When the children are abandoned by their parents, he finds a variety of means to save his life and the lives of his brothers. After being threatened and pursued by an ogre, Poucet steals his magic seven-league boots while the monster is sleeping.
  • 11D: Good guess for a single letter in a cryptogram (AN "I") — hmm. Depends on context. I'd say "AN 'A'" is better, or at least as good ("I" and "A" being the only common single-letter English words).
  • 38D: Rocket-shaped frozen treat (ASTRO POP) — These always looked so cool on the side of the ice cream truck! Turns out they look better than they taste, but on days like these (i.e. sweltering), I can't help but be nostalgic for mediocre brightly-colored frozen treats. The item that actually bears the brand name ASTRO POP is apparently a room temperature lollipop, booooo! When I see ASTRO POP, this is what I picture:



See you next time.

Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld

[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]

113 comments:

Anonymous 5:59 AM  

I’m sorry but hold does not mean take.

Son Volt 6:10 AM  

Definitely not easy for me - but I found it just as unpleasant. The theme is flat - my issue was with the obtuse cluing - it mever really clicked.

Is it the good turtle soup

The long downs were fine - SEA SERPENTS and MATCH MAKERS. They were always bomb POPs for me. HAWKISH x SMACK TALK is neat I guess.

Nothing to see here.

In the secret space of dreams

mathgent 6:17 AM  

I died on that hill. TIN?? had to be TINGE.

Pretty entertaining puzzle, but it went over the legal limit on threes -- 22.

Anonymous 6:18 AM  

The NE corner sucked one year of my life away.

Adam 6:22 AM  

CHaP STICK and CAKE worked for the last theme as well (CHaP isn't quite as good as CHOP for "Cut" but it works, and a CaKE pop is pretty popular nowadays). TINge threw me as well, and Heinz before HUNTS really made the SW corner challenging for me. Overall I found this harder than the average Wednesday, but I enjoyed the theme more than @Rex did.

Anonymous 6:49 AM  

Resisted equating “take” with HOLD until I had no choice - that one still doesn’t land for me. Also, as Rex suggests I went with AN a for the cryptogram clue, and for the life of me could not decipher or detect any errant crosses in ATTaC.

Anonymous 6:56 AM  

Interesting article from today’s Guardian that made me think of this site: https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/19/less-elvis-more-taylor-swift-a-clue-for-dated-cryptic-crossword-setters?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

thfenn 7:01 AM  

I tend to think all puzzles are good puzzles but will admit this one left me a little flat. Enjoyed completing it because, well, it's a puzzle, and anyone that can make one of these is smarter than I am, so I don't criticize much. But the whole let's make one word out of two words thing just doesn't grab me. Looking at you too SB, like yesterday's. Too much stuff like this HEATKICK were getting (no that wasn't an SB word, and know its not even a word). Plus today's full of them. I do think it's cool that the themers have legit X and X phrasing that spits out a new word when you come up with other words for the parts and add 'em together, that's certainly a feat. But then you also get MATCHMAKER and RAILCAR and FANDUEL, and a bit of a slog fest. Throw some MMA, SUCKS, and ANAL in there and I just want it to end. And with that I will.

Annonymous Army Wife 7:05 AM  

I got stuck so long on Astropop. I started with STETL, and went with POPSICLE - makes sense, right?! But I was sure of UPS and couldn't think of any answer that started with T (from SHTETL) and landed on POPSICLE. But once I got the theme I was certain of SMACK TALK and revsited. I literally have them in my freezer and they're called Bomb pops so I had A BOMB POP for the whole time because I had A first. Your RUSSIA clue helped me fix it and got the rest of the puzzle done for me +but incorrectly!)

The one clue I had to use the key to fix (rather the one LETTER!) was ATTIC/AN I. I had ANY and AT NYC, which I wasn't thrilled with but in my crypto puzzle solving experience, an A is the mostlikely for a single letter word guess so I thought it meant just a letter in general (perhaps trying to be funny? Shrug).

Overall I found this puzzle somehow too easy and also unsolvable. Not particularly fun. Love your blog though. You have become part of my daily routine. Please never stop or I may have to actually start work on time.

Conrad 7:13 AM  


Easy-Medium for a Wednesday. As is often the case, I liked it more than @Rex did.

Overwrites:
wwe before UFC at 7D
@Rex TINge before TINCT at 21A
Hew before HUG at 59D, due to ...
... @Adam Heinz before HUNTS at 63A

No WOEs, but ...
I don't know the Aeneid at all. Luckily, SEA SERPENTS (24D) was easy enough to get from crosses.
It took a few crosses to remember Charles SUMNER (31A)
I had to wait for BUTTONS (10D) to resolve the EdgES/EASES coin toss at 35A.

I understood HANDHOLD (25A) to be something like a toehold, maybe in mountain climbing (which I do not do).

Mack 7:14 AM  

I started disliking this puzzle immediately with the very first answer, HELM -- which is not at all a captain's position.
Then it slightly redeemed itself with the Princess Bride reference.
But the lack of any challenge meant it never quite recovered from that bad opening.

@rex: HANDHOLD isn't meant to be a verb. It's a noun, like foothold.

Anonymous 7:17 AM  

That's a Bomb Pop.

jcal 7:18 AM  

A surprising mistake in the puzzle. "Tao" is not a "Confucian philosophy." Like Confucianism (a Confucian Philosophy) Taoism is a Chinese way of thought and they do share similarities. But they are different philosophies which approach aspects of human life differently and I'm surprised at the confusion (though the 3 letter answer was of course obvious.)

Burghman 7:21 AM  

Had myself a weird Natick-y situation, but I can’t fully blame the puzzle. Was returning to work MidDAYS, thinking of heading back after lunch breaks, and for all I knew PASEi and ACORdS was right… never heard of PASEO and never knew ACORNS were signs of humble beginnings. Oh, well.

Anonymous 7:28 AM  

Omigoodness. Ketchup is made by HEINZ. HUNTS makes catsup. As a Pittsburgher, I am saddened by this oversight. :-)

Anonymous 7:36 AM  

Exactly!

Jack Stefano 7:37 AM  

Handhold can be a verb too. As in, mentor. But I’m really wondering why helm isn’t a captain’s position. I’m no seafarer, but as I understand it ships have helms.

pabloinnh 7:37 AM  

Anyone else have TINGE first? Everybody? OK, I feel better.

I was congratulating myself on knowing all the proper names in this one, even ESTONIA and SUMNER, and then I remembered that I may have seen an ASTROPOP but have never tasted one and didn't remember them at all. So near, and yet so far away.

Today's oldie but goodie, ATTA, and clued properly too. Nice. Liked PASEO too, but not sure if it's familiar to lots of folks.

I liked this more than OFL, no news there, and thought the answers at least were clever, even if the clues made them too easy.

Nice enough Wednesdecito, BW. No Big Whoop but Ok while it lasted. Thanks for all the fun.

And RIP Willie Mays, the best all-around player in baseball history, sez me. Talk about thanks for all the fun. He was The Man for that, and glad I got to see him in real time.

Anonymous 7:43 AM  

P.S. Try peanut butter, THEN butter. Delicious.

Kali 7:47 AM  

I took the cryptic clue to have a "double" meaning like a cryptic would, so "single" which means one and the letter "I" as a capital looks like the number one, so the answer had to be ANI

Wanderlust 7:53 AM  

Far from easy for me, and I ended with an error. As Rex and many have said, the NE was brutal. Yes to TINge before TINCT, but also EdgES before EASES. Plus HOLD doesn’t seem at all like a synonym for take to me. All of that made it nearly impossible to get MATCHMAKERS and BUTTONS with their very tough clues. (Once I finally got it, though, I loved the clue for the first one.)

At long last, I worked out that section to finish, only to get the sad trombone. I ran over the puzzle for typos, and saw my error but couldn’t fix it. I had cDS instead of IDS. They are often stored in plastic protectors, and I have no idea about anything MMA so WcI seemed plausible - but probably the error. I realized the clue gave no indication of an abbreviation, so cDS had to be wrong. But IDS is an abbreviation too (or a shortening of identification) so I didn’t see that. Had to come here.

Also, I’m sure I wasn’t the only one with Heinz before HUNTS, Hew seemed to work for “keep close to” (as in “hew the party line”) so that means the no-no for vegans is … EweS? Well, yes. Also rams and lambs. Fixed that one pretty quickly though.

I also liked Cubs manager for LIONESS.

Anonymous 8:05 AM  

A helmsman (or sometimes a pilot) steers the boat, not the captain.

SouthsideJohnny 8:06 AM  

Whenever I take my (recreational) boat out on the lake, I’m definitely the captain and I’m usually at the HELM.

Didn’t (and still don’t) get, or like, the clue for ACORNS. I’m sure someone can try to put us all to sleep by waxing philosophical that “from these humble beginnings, mighty OAKS (or are they ELMS?) will rise”. Add to that the (to me) nonexistent word PASEO and the fact that I bought into the Wounded knee misdirect (totally on me for not remembering to check that knee is not capitalized) and that section beat me up pretty good.

One might ask “why is there no abbreviation in the clue for IDS?” as I just did rhetorically, and I’m sure that even I could make up some flimsy reason to attempt to justify it. However, I’ll go with just another example of editorial sloppiness. Clue it as Freudian if you’re too lazy to come up with something legit.

PH 8:16 AM  

Medium. I thought the concept was clever, which doesn't always translate to fun for everyone, but I quite liked it.

Old crosswordese: PASEO, Zubin MEHTA

Nice to learn about SUMNER. Happy Juneteenth!

DavidF 8:17 AM  

@Jack Stefano, the HELM is the helmsman's position, not the captain's. On any decent-sized ship, anyway... :)

I almost got DNFed in the NE with ATTIC/BUTTON/SUMNER - I had ANA (because A is much more common than I), and I couldn't get past it.

Anonymous 8:30 AM  

A helmsman is at the helm, and the room temperature brand faux pas with astropops in the middle of a heat wave is abombinable editing.

andrew 8:37 AM  

HUNTS changed from catsup to ketchup in 1988. Originally, Heinz called its product catsup as well, but changed it in the 1880’s.

ZZZ Catsup v Ketchup ZZZ

Sadly, this Cliff Clavin little-known factoid is more interesting than this puzzle - don’t relish saying that it clearly didn’t cut the mustard…

kitshef 8:39 AM  

Ridiculously hard (for a Wednesday). Yet things were going swimmingly early on, before crashing to a halt in the NE.
My issues:
- TINge before TINCT
- I don't see how 'take' = HOLD
- SUMNER was a WOE
- ANa before ANI ('a' is much more common in acrostics)
- mdS before DRS
- TINge made BUTTONS and MATCHMAKERS impossible to see

Good theme other than HANDHOLD.

I also strongly resisted putting in ASTRO POP until there was no other option because ASTRO POPs are not frozen. And hand up for shtetl before RUSSIA.

@Anonymous 7:28 - Hunts makes ketchup. They stopped making catsup 30 years ago.


Anonymous 8:54 AM  

“Slapstick” and “tinge” held me back far too long

Anonymous 8:58 AM  

that ice cream/popsicle thing we referred to as a rocket pop. these are astropops: https://www.trythesweetspot.com/product/astro-pop-1-5-oz/985

RooMonster 8:59 AM  

Hey All !
Interesting theme idea. Could've tried to get a sixth Themer in, but fill quality probably would've suffered as a result. With 5, the grid is able to "breathe" a bit.

Nice open corners. Even the NE/SW are open after the two Blocker section. MATCHMAKERS could've possibly been another Themer.

NE tough spot here. Came *this* close to Googing that senator's name, but held fast and GROKed that area, to finish to Happy Music.

Liked it. Even liked the O-P fest in South-Center.

Happy Wednesday!

Two F's
RooMonster
DarrinV

Nancy 9:06 AM  

A second puzzle in a row based on wordplay, so I'm a happy camper. I really liked the fact that the blank + blank clues are real phrases and that the answers have absolutely nothing to do with those phrases. And the conceit almost worked in the case of every themer -- but alas, it doesn't work at HANDHOLD because HOLD does not = TAKE. It just doesn't.

Does it bother me that all themers are single words other than SMACK TALK? Perhaps a little -- but not all that much.

And yet it's interesting that the two themers I couldn't get without crosses were HANDHOLD and SMACK TALK. (I had SMACKT, but needed even more crosses.)

TINGE/TINCT has always been a kealoa for me. As always, I wrote in TIN...and waited.

Loved the clues for MATCHMAKERS (9D) and ACORNS (47A).

While not especially hard, this puzzle gave me enough thinking to do to keep me happy.

Sam 9:10 AM  

Can we not have FAN DUEL and its ilk in the puzzle please

Anonymous 9:12 AM  

Came here to say “That’s a BOMBPOP!!” but now feel that it’s also worth mentioning that HANDHOLD is more commonly a noun, for where you put your hand when you lift or climb something. “Let me get a handhold.”

Anonymous 9:21 AM  

mighty oaks from little acorns grow

Anonymous 9:30 AM  

Yup…
ANa before ANI
TINge before TINCT
Heinz before HUNTS

Anonymous 9:31 AM  

Dr J

Anonymous 9:35 AM  

I had the same issue with cake v coke. Agree the 'o' is better for the across clue but it's certainly ambiguous and cost me some time!

Anonymous 9:36 AM  

Not that crossword puzzlers are known for their upper-body strength, but the lack of familiarity with the term handhold (an extremely common term in rock climbing) doesn't do much to dispel that notion.

Anonymous 9:50 AM  

Charles Sumner (Massachusetts) was, on account of his anti-slavery views, beaten nearly to death on the Senate floor. Not a bad historical note on Juneteenth.

paige worthy 9:53 AM  

My guy. Why do you even do these puzzles if you hate them so much? (I recognize this is the lighter equivalent of "IF YOU HATE IT HERE WHY DON'T YOU JUST MOVE," but man.)

You and my friend Tom would get so rip-roaring drunk on Haterade. He wants Sam Ezersky dead.

Jim in Canada 9:54 AM  

The actual ASTRO POP (room temperature lollipop version) was rather infamous in our school, as the trick was to get a newbie to bite down into it.
The Astro Pop wouldn't break apart, but rather your teeth would be firmly lodged in the thing and a kid's jaw strength isn't nearly enough to free them. You'd need to take both your hands, stick them in your mouth, and pry your jaws apart.
Good times.

Anonymous 9:57 AM  

SPACKLE lent some sparkle

Anonymous 10:00 AM  

Struggled. Everything angled weirdly. Sludge, not whoosh.

Anonymous 10:12 AM  

“an extremely common term in rock climbing” 😂 ok bro 💪

Tom 10:13 AM  

Anyone else put off by the “Wounded knee” clue? It’s never ok to be cutesy with massacre sites.

Anonymous 10:18 AM  

re. 63A; the name on the catsup/ketchup bottle is HUNT, not HUNTS. The brand is Hunt’s.

Raymond 10:24 AM  

Sea monsters are also present in Hebrew culture; thus we read in Genesis 1:21: "And God created the great sea-creatures [Hebrew: 'ha'taninim ha'gedolim']." (The singular "tanin" is now the modern Hebrew term for a crocodile or an alligator).
S.Y. Agnon 1887-1970), Israel's literature Nobelist (1966) in his great Hebrew novel "Only Yesterday," tells us that an elderly woman who is on board a ship sailing in 1908 from Trieste to Jaffa, asks the novel's 18-year-old protagonist, Yitzchak Kumer (whose story is based in some part on Agnon's own experiences): "Why do you think we don't see the huge monsters of the sea that chase after ships and swallow them up together with all the passengers, and for that reason every ship is equipped with sharp sabers that cut up the sea creatures to prevent them from devouring the vessel? And yet on this ship there are no sabers, nor do I see any sea creatures following the vessel."
From my reading: All seafaring cultures have legends about frighteningly huge sea-monsters that swallow up people and even ships. Norwegian mythology tells of the legendary "Kraken" monster which, according to stories told by sailors, could toss ships into the air with its numerous long arms; similarly Jules Verne in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" describes "a squid of colossal dimensions that engaged in a battle with a naval ship. A documented living creature that could be source of tales of the massive "sea monsters" that the elderly woman mentions, is the giant squid (Architeuthis dux), which has huge tentacles with which it catches its prey. While the giant squid is indeed massive (the female can grow to a size of fifty feet across; the male's penis is three feet in length), there is no documentary evidence of attacks by them on ships.

Carola 10:37 AM  

Reading @Rex's review, I was agape -he didn't like it?! And then I came here and found that plenty of other solvers also would have pressed the "dislike" BUTTON. But I'm firmly with Nancy 9:06. I had fun solving the individual riddles of the theme clues and admired how the totally natural verb phrases were transformed into nouns with completely different meanings. AND we got SEA SERPENTS, MATCHMAKERS, ACADEMIA, HAWKISH, ASTROPOP, and SPACKLE. A good week for grammar, after yesterday's prefixes and suffixes. Maybe tomorrow we'll get adjectives and adverbs :) Seriously, I thought this was a really good Wednesday.

Favorite cross: ACADEMIA and SMACK TALK reminded me of the letters column in the New York Review of Books where the Letters section often gets scorched with eye-widening ad hominem attacks.

Spelling Bee training meant TINCT for me.

Burtonkd 10:59 AM  

Rex nailed my experience with a blank row of 6 letters = SHTETL, which I proudly entered, then had to remove. Also with having heard of Hop-o’-My-Thumb, but having no idea who or what that is: the French is so much nicer Petit Poucet, although the English does have a memorable poetic bounce to it.

@JJK yesterday, apologies for not getting the tongue-in-cheek part of your post yesterday. The complaints here can be tedious at times; sorry that yours blew the gasket for some reason.

I’m impressed with the concept of the theme, although it ends up in being a series of short word synonyms as a solve. The only one that bothered me is the Give + Take, which I can’t hear as a stand alone phrase, whereas Give or Take is solid.

@anon 6:18: nice reference to Princess Bride, you truly have a dizzying intellect!

I see everyone’s TINge, and raise you one TINte

Our tour guide in Spain informed us early on that the PASEO is a very popular post-dinner activity for people of all ages, and sure enough, every evening groups were out on a lovely stroll.
@Southside, it is VERY much a word to 500 million native Spanish speakers

Whatsername 11:03 AM  

I found this more difficult than the average Wednesday, had a particularly hard time in the NE for some reason. Had a few quibbles, but I liked it a lot. The themers were clever although IMO the use of “take” in the clue for HANDHOLD doesn’t work because in order to hold [on to] something, you have to already have possession of it.

My dad was the only person I ever knew who liked butter on his peanut butter sandwiches. I remember my mother putting one wrapped in wax paper into his black metal lunchbox with his thermos of coffee. And since I had to do everything the same way he did, I grew up eating mine that way too.

vjensen 11:07 AM  

I'm stunned by the ACL clue. "Wounded knee site" seems as if it's making a play on Wounded Knee, the site of an Indian massacre. Even if that wasn't the intention, it shows a great lack of thought from the constructor and editor.

Anonymous 11:12 AM  

To all those complaining that "take" doesn't mean "hold", I say: Take my hand so I can see how much fuel this tank will take.

GILL I. 11:16 AM  

EASY? Not unless you know MMA UFC ....A FANDUEL and Mr SUMNER. I have no idea was an ASTRO POP is and that clue for BUTTONS (Remote possibility) is so strange that I wanted to make me a peanut butter with dill pickles and mayo sandwich!

I didn't have a problem with the theme answers but I did stare at SMACK TALK. I know talk smack but it seems that anything goes in this puzzle. THEN...I guess I'm the only fool who had HAWKeye (thinking MASH and Mr. Pierce who I'm pretty sure hated war) only to find out one is HAWKISH if you are aggressively pro-war. Strange the things that you learn and forget.

Too many little threes that I didn't particularly like except maybe HOT HUG. All I can say is that I'm incredibly happy ACORNS are symbols of humble beginnings.

marv 11:17 AM  

Re the Tao clue, I agree with Jcal it is weak. Here are a few comments crossword lovers might appreciate, for there is an issue about the limits of language in relation to formulating guidance about how to live as a human being. Here is my understanding of these two exquisite philosophical approaches (a) Confucius (Kung Fu Tzu) set out to describe the duties associated with roles in civilized society --the “tao” of a parent, civil servant, soldier. His work is magnificent yet limited in its detail and remains important as an aspirational project. (b) Laozi (Taoism) looked at the bigger picture about how to live “the tao that can be expressed is not the real tao” (one translation of the first line of Tao te Ching). One might spell out the tao of a baseball player, for instance -- what makes one good at it. But spelling out the tao of Willie Mays? -- ineffable, essentially mysterious.

jae 11:18 AM  

Add me to those having problems in the NE which made this one on the tough side for me. I had HAND HeLD before HOLD (I need to read the clues more carefully), me too for TINge before TINCT, I was iffy on spelling SUMNER, I couldn’t see BUTTONS…

Shouldn’t 25d be “Kinda pro war” ?

Novel theme idea with some nice long downs, liked it more than @Rex did.

Ginny 11:20 AM  

Not only that, but "Tao" isn't the name of the philosophy at all, but rather a concept from the philosophy of Taoism.

Ginny 11:22 AM  

I agree.

Anonymous 11:22 AM  

But the clue implies the second word in the compound word means “take” not the whole compound word. Hold does not mean take

JonnyZ 11:27 AM  

PASEO? SUMNER? TINCT? SMACKTALK? KOKO?

AND THIS WAS EASY? Way over time with a lot of cheating. Most unpleasant solve in forever.

egsforbreakfast 11:31 AM  

Hop + fit
Eat + orate
Swindle + irk
(Answers below)

As a helmsman must steer, SOAKING must reign.

Isn't it hitting a little too close to home to clue the name of our felonious ex-president as "Title for a crime boss?" I'm undecided.

Can a bee that is "Not in motion" (44D) RESTING?

Willie Mays died yesterday and I've got to tell the story of my interaction with the greatest player ever. I think I told it here once before. I apologize: I found myself in the owners box at Candlestick Park once in the 1990s and Willie Mays was acting as a sort of goodwill ambassador, making the rounds and chatting with each person. When he got to me I told him that the first major league game I had seen in person was the first year that the Giants played at Candlestick and that he had hit two inside-the-park home runs. He thought I had to be misremembering and I recall him saying something like "No one has ever hit two in one game." A few innings later, he came back to me with a big smile and said "You're right, I did that!" I guess he'd had someone research it. It clearly made his day and more than made mine. So long No. 24. Say Hey!

I always appreciate a clever theme concept, and this was a good one. Thanks, Brad Wiegmann


JUMPSUIT
DOWNSPOUT
CONVEX

pabloinnh 11:41 AM  

@egs-Love your Willie Mays story. There's a wonderful piece in Esquire today celebrating #24 as well.

Thanks for sharing.

Scottlife 11:44 AM  

Took 12 minutes to do the puzzle except for the NE, which took 18 minutes. In addition to all said above about “handhold,” “tinge” before “tinct,” and the misdirection on the clue for “matchmaker,” I had “MD” before “DR.” Also thought it would be a letter spelled out, like “enn,” not “an I.” Never heard of “Fanduel.” Finally, thought Sumner” was the “Sumter” the fort was named after, and thought it couldn’t be him because they wouldn’t name a fort in Charleston after an abolitionist, especially one who was still living.



Tom T 11:44 AM  

Lots of Hidden Diagonal Words (HDW) in today's grid, including a somewhat rare 5 letter HDW.

In the spirit of the puzzle's theme, I offer this this clue to a combination of two of the Hidden Diagonal Words in the grid:

Flesh + pasty

And the answer?

MEAT PIE

MEAT begins with the M in 31A, SUMNER, and moves to the SW; PIE begins with the P in one of the theme answers--16A, STOPWATCH--and moves to the NW.

The 5 letter HDW, by the way, is made possible by a "Plural of Convenience" (POC): that MEAT mentioned above is followed by an S, giving the 5 letter HDW MEATS.

Anonymous 11:48 AM  

“Take this for a second”

Anonymous 11:49 AM  

100% agree. Poor taste

Anonymous 11:54 AM  

And I. Surprised that got by the editor.

Whatsername 11:56 AM  

@Dr A from last night: I had the same reaction as you did yesterday to girlies. And almost that bad today with the offhand reference to “wounded knee.” Surely we can do better.

@egs(11:31) Great story about Willie Mays, an all-star in every sense of the term. May he be at peace in his eternal rest.

Anonymous 11:57 AM  

Lol

Anonymous 11:58 AM  

LOL

jb129 12:01 PM  

I didn't dislike it as much as Rex & it wasn't easy for me. Didn't know SUMNER & I knew it had to be ATTIC but didn't know FANDUEL, had TINGE for TINCT but I did like SAT (49A).
Gearing up for tomorrow which will either be a rebus or a gimmick I'll struggle with. But that's tomorrow.
Thanks, Brad :)

Anonymous 12:02 PM  

That NE corner belongs in a tough Friday — question marks in two clues (ATTIC and BUTTONS) plus one more that needed a question mark (MATCHMAKERS). Add the TINGE/TINCT thing. I knew SUMNER immediately and still I spent half my solve time there. The rest was a total breeze.

Masked and Anonymous 12:08 PM  

Very cool theme idea. M&A made a runtpuz a few days ago that had a similar mcguffin -- but my themers were kinda more sneaky. Example, not used: {Jump with a chip off the old block?} = HOPSON.

re: HANDHOLD themer - Well … I can see "take" as "get HOLD of", at least.

Slightly feisty collection of clues, for: ALUM. LIONESS. MATCHMAKERS. BUTTONS. SAT. ATTIC.
Also luved seein the ASIA ref to "The Princess Bride". An all-time top 100 fave flick, at our house. Lotsa memorable lines, includin "As you wish" and "In-con-ceivable!".

A real treasure trove of 22 weejects today. Staff picks: MMA & UFC. Near-total no-knows, but finally did recall MMA, probably from previous xword close encounters. Speakin of no-knows…

* ASTROPOP. Sorta inferrable, but not familiar.
* FANDUEL. M&A ain't into sports bettin. Does have a faint ring to it, maybe from a TV ad?
* SUMNER & MEHTA people names. Got to do a "when in doubt, try U", for the SUMNER/FANDUEL cross.

Thanx, Mr. Wiegmann dude. STOPWATCH was definitely my fave themer -- we used to have a cockatiel named that. (He pulled out my wristwatch stem, while ridin for the first time on my arm, shortly after bein discovered by us in our friend's frontyard.)

Masked & Anonymo6Us


I thought this would be a hard runt, but it evidently ain't...
**gruntz**

Doug 12:09 PM  

It's too hot right now for me to write it all out (and apologies if this was already mentioned earlier in the comments), but you should check out Charles Sumner, particular the story of how he was nearly beaten to death on the floor of the Senate by an anti-abolitionist congressman. I think about that story when current events make me feel hopeless: abolitionists at that time must have been discouraged to see the perpetrator of that violent attack celebrated as a hero and overwhelmingly reelected to the House, but the abolitionists won in the end.

jb129 12:15 PM  

BTW - Robyn W. fans - she's at the NYer today so we probably won't see her here this Friday (we usually don't see her 2 Fridays in a row anyway... but who's keeping track).

jberg 12:19 PM  

HOLD my beer, as they say in the Mixed Martial Arts business.

SUMNER has a statue in the Boston Public Garden, plus I used to cover abolitionism when I taught American Political Thought, so that was a gimme-- I realize it's a wheelhouse things. As for KOKO, she couldn't talk, of course, but typed words out on a computer. She was also famous for asking her trainer for a pet kitten, which she became very fond of. So nice to see her in the puzzle.

Not so nice to have to guess that you do MMA in a octagon, but now I've learned something.

Liveprof 12:23 PM  

I couldn't eat peanut butter or strawberries when I was growing up, because of my older brother, Jay. I was like a child in Appalachia who has never seen an orange. My mother couldn't bring peanut butter into the house because Jay loved it too much. He would binge it all up and get sick. He was powerless to resist, even though he had no other addictive tendencies.

Strawberries were another matter. My brother left home for college but had an apartment in NYC while my mom and I lived in Brooklyn. And whenever I found strawberries in the fridge and went to take some, my mother would say -- "Don't touch the strawberries. Jay will be home soon and they're his favorite. OK. So I never had strawberries either. Peanut butter
and strawberries.

Years later, with both of us much older and mom gone, my brother was visiting me and I remembered that I happened to have some strawberries. So I said to him, Hey - we have some strawberries -- your favorite!. And he said, I don't know why mom thought they were my favorite. One time I ate one and said it was good, but they were never particularly special to me.

And I said, What!! My whole childhood I couldn't have strawberries because of you!!

My mother was crazy, for sure, but in such a good way.

Anonymous 12:25 PM  

Found it hard. Used tinge. Question how is alum person of the year?

Burtonkd 12:25 PM  

Speaking of the NYer today, something grows up to be an Oak tree in one of the clues.

JJK 12:28 PM  

Easy for me except for the NE, where I had all the same problems others have named (TINge, mdS before DRS, could not get BUTTONS, no idea on FANDUEL.)

I do think what I mostly hear is trashTALK, or TALK SMACK, rather than SMACKTALK.

And, sorry, I just don’t know, what is MMA?

@Burtonkd, thx for the apology, and I recognize that my tongue-in-cheekness may have been obvious only to myself.

johnk 12:28 PM  

Like most here, I did not know of Charles SUMNER. He was the bone the NYTXW threw at Juneteenth today (just as, on Sunday, they threw in DADS as their single-word celebration of Father's Day). Well, OK, they added Harper LEE, too.
So, to celebrate Juneteenth, they put those two White people in the puzzle. On a now-federal holiday celebrating the end of the enslavement of Black people, that is hardly enough. What they did instead is give us this too-easy POS of the sort that belongs on MONDAYS.

Andy S. 12:32 PM  

I completely agree—mind boggling. The US Congress formally apologized for Wounded Knee in 1990…

Liveprof 12:58 PM  

@egs -- great story -- amazing that Mays could forget such a feat.

George Will has a book about baseball called Men at Work. He features several individual players and goes into them in depth. One was Willie Mays. I read it a long time ago but I remember this story about Mays. If he was facing a young pitcher late in a game that was pretty much over (so the at-bat didn't matter very much) he would "on purpose" let the pitcher strike him out. And he'd remember the strike-out pitch. Inevitably, years later he'd face the pitcher again in a crucial situation. And he knew the pitcher would remember the pitch he once used to strike out the great Willie Mays. Mays knew he'd use it again. Bye bye.

Amy 12:59 PM  

I guess no one cares about the “Popular pop” ASTRO POP dupe?

Anonymous 1:05 PM  

“Fiddler on the Roof” is NOT set in Russia but in Ukraine (which was part of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE then).

Barbara S. 1:06 PM  

Oh, man. I’ve just had a flash of the Millers, who were great friends of the family and lived close by when I was a kid. They had an oral shorthand for “bread and butter and peanut butter” which went something like this:

Breb’m bub’m peab’m bub’m.

We all said it! And ate it!

P.S. I'm among the few, the happy few, who enjoyed the puzzle.

Teedmn 1:10 PM  

I found this theme rather entertaining. I had trouble with the second half of 16A and the whole top center and NE was hard for me so HAND HOLD was the last and hardest theme answer to go in (yes, take does not equal hold in my book.) At least I see HANDHOLD as a legitimate term as in something you grab onto on a bus or tram.

ALUM came hard for me, with only the A in place and no idea about UFC and much uncertainty about MEHTA.

Rex's bullet point re: 11D is exactly why I wrote in AN_ and waited for the cross (which was another tough clue for ATTIC though a good one.)

Nice job, Brad Wiegman!

spectre 1:27 PM  

Butter keeps the jelly from making the bread soggy. I pretty much put butter on ever sandwich - doesn't everyone?

Anonymous 1:37 PM  

Same. I just don’t think tinct is a word. Spell check just now tried to correct it!

DigitalDan 1:43 PM  

I could only wish that just once one of these puzzles would be filled with, or even contain just one, word for us true tech geeks. I desperately wanted the three-letter "items protected by plastic covers" to be ICS*. Nope; the mundane wins again. Quite often I find myself going for the technical term when some dumb normie word is the answer.

* As in Integrated Circuits, you know? Even better would be the same clue with the answer DIP. You know: Dual Inline Packaging. Heh.

Les S. More 1:48 PM  

Not only @Rex easy, but also kinda boring. Dull theme and the only places I got tripped up were at 21A - was it TINge or TINCT - and 40D because I was too stupid to catch the lower case “k”.

Proud of myself for getting PASEO off the P. We used to do that in the evenings in Naxos; wander up and down the beachside roadway a few times and then retire to a cafe for an ouzo or a pastry and watch all the other people do the same. The little kids were always fun. They were supposed to be on their best behaviour but every once in a while a couple of them would fall behind their parents and engage in a bit of playful pushing and shoving until Mum or Dad looked back and sternly rebuked them in order to restore that sense of decorum that seemed so necessary. Smiles all around.

I don’t remember that we had a term for the activity itself; we would just say, “Let’s do the paralia” .(I don’t know how to type that in Greek). Looking it up I find that it just translates to seaside.

okanaganer 1:54 PM  

After reading all the comments and much deep consideration, I have decided I am in the TAKE is an okay clue for HOLD camp.

Because I had MDS instead of DRS, for quite a while looking at HAND--LM all I could think was: HAND PALM? That is SO not a thing!

I actually liked the theme, but agree with Rex SMACK TALK is the outlier for not being one word.

@Sam 9:10 am, agree about FAN DUEL; I hate the tsunami of gambling sites lately.

@Barbara S, hi! Please drop by more often!

[Spelling Bee: Tues 0, but one of those food words almost sank me. "Streak" at 3.]

Anoa Bob 2:22 PM  

I thought the theme was clever and amusing. I am wondering, however, how much you can do with a CHOPSTICK. Maybe it was a singular of convenience (SOC) to balance several plurals of convenience (POC) that we get, for example, when one MATCHMAKER or SEA SERPENT isn't up to its task.

I knew that 64A "Gorilla who was said to have developed the vocabulary level of a three-year-old human" was KOKO. That conclusion has been criticized as being anthropomorphic, as attributing human characteristics to an animal's behavior when other, simpler explanations will do the job. Several psychologists and primatologists suggested that KOKO was just responding to signals from her trainer in order to receive food rewards. (@jberg 12:19 KOKO did not type words out on a computer. It was arguably claimed she was using sign language.)

@Southside 8:06, a Freudian clue for 20A IDS would duplicate* the Freudian spin on the clue for 65A ANAL "Ultrafastidious". Although Freud is an historical footnote in contemporary psychiatry and psychology, he still lives on in the NYT Crossword Puzzle.

*Recent puzzles have made it clear, however, that duplication in clues and entries are no problem. Today, for example, we get 38D ASTROPOP with its next door neighbor 56D COKE clued as "Popular pop.

SharonAK 2:29 PM  

@Egs... Your post sparkled again. Great Willie Mays story.
Also liked your clues/answers following the theme. Clever.

Was glad to see that a few commenters had also enjoyed the wordplay.

Did find the puzzle a bit hard. I guessed "tinct" eventually, but looked it up to be sure . It was labeled "obsolete" Had never head of" paseo" as a word used in the English nor an evening stroll.

Anonymous 3:18 PM  

Thank you! Agreed!

Les S. More 3:54 PM  

η παραλία Ah, there it is. Not as complicated as I thought. Instead of figuring out how to type Greek characters on my english keyboard, I just have to get Google to translate it, then I copy it and paste it over here. Even a fool like me can pull this off. η παραλία, the seaside.

Burtonkd 4:00 PM  

@egs, great WM story!
Loved the one about the intentional strike-outs coming back to bite pitchers later, also.

Nancy 4:08 PM  

There's a huge lump in my [unceremoniously-stripped-of-Willie-Mays-at-the-impressionable-and easily-rendered-disillusioned-age-of-only-15-years-old] throat as I read the charming and disarming first-person memory of Willie Mays from @egs. Willie actually forgot that amazing stat, @egs???!!! Really? Oh how I envy you, @egs, in having had that amazing close up and personal interaction with him!

And then from @Liveprof -- the fascinating (and completely unknown to me) George Will anecdote. What an amazing and fiendishly clever intelligence at work. I'd bet that not many people know that story. Thank you so much for sharing it!

And others are also chiming in on the blog today with their admiration and affection for the incomparable Willie-- not only @egs and @Liveprof, but also @pabloinnh and @whatsername.

You've all heard -- perhaps too many times -- my own first-person story of how I lost both my love of and my interest in baseball when, in 1957, the evil owner Horace Stoneham unceremoniously whisked my beloved NY Giants off to San Francisco. Do you for a moment think that, if I had been able to watch Willie Mays play from 1951 to 1973 rather than only from 1951 to 1957, I would have EVER lost my love of and interest in baseball? I assure you that it would not have been remotely conceivable.

Willie Mays is the greatest athlete I ever saw play any sport in real time. I include Djokovic, Federer and Nadal; Billie Jean King, Serena, Martina and Steffi Graf. I include Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Bill Russell. I include Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods.

You can read the incredible tributes pouring in from the most trusted media outlets in sports -- and they all say the same thing that I just said. That not only was Mays the greatest baseball player of all time but that he may have been the greatest pure athlete of all time in any sport. It is wonderful seeing how many people on this blog watched him in his prime and loved and appreciated him.








Nancy 4:15 PM  

For those of you baseball fans who never saw Willie Mays play in real time, here's one of the many articles today that helps explain his greatness.

Anonymous 4:27 PM  

Anonymous 12:25 PM
My college had a reunion for the year 1974 class - which I chose not to attend- An ALUMnus is a person of the year. It’s a misdirection.

Anonymous 4:33 PM  

Amy
About the dupe
I noticed it
But the Times no longer has a rule against dupes like that. Rex only mentions dupes now when he thinks they are too much.
Personally, it doesn’t bother me.

Anonymous 4:50 PM  

Anonymous 1:05
Crosswords are puzzles based often on popular often spoken language , not written language used in a dissertation in grad school. Russia in popular usage encompasses the Russian Empire. If you want to parse language Ukraine did not exist at the time but the region controlled by Russia was referred to as the Ukraine. In the late nineteenth century it had not been independent for centuries leading to multiple holocausts in the 20th.
However unfortunate, Russia is a valid answer.

Anonymous 4:52 PM  

Specter
About everyone putting butter on every sandwich
Me no

dgd 5:25 PM  

A very varied reaction to this puzzle.
I liked it and found it fairly easy.
Knowing Sumner helped.
On a serious note
Several people pointed out he was almost beaten to death at the Capitol by a South Carolina congressman who became a Southern hero. Sadly, while the North won the Civil War the South won the undeclared war called “Reconstruction “, and by the end of the 19 th Century most Blacks in the South could not vote, had few rights and could be beaten or murdered with impunity. In the long run, the biggest gain from emancipation was the ability to move North legally (or join the Army and fight the Indians) which in itself was a mixed blessing.
So Civil War victory = 2 steps forward for Black Americans
The Southern former Slave Power victory by the end of Reconstruction = 1 & 1/2 steps back.
We are now witnessing following advances made by Black Americans during the Civil Rights era the descendants of that former “ Slave Power “ trying to destroy as much of the gains made as possible. I shudder to think what will happen if their chief agent of destruction gets elected.

Anonymous 7:58 PM  

"11D: Good guess for a single letter in a cryptogram (AN "I") — hmm. Depends on context. I'd say "AN 'A'" is better, or at least as good ("I" and "A" being the only common single-letter English words)."

I would agree, BUT, in the next paragraph you have two stand alone Is and one A. There you go.

Anonymous 8:20 PM  

Nor MMA aka human cockfighting with desperate young men

Liam M. 9:38 PM  

Not to go all nautical or anything, but a helmsman is at the helm. Not, definitely not, the captain.

kitshef 9:39 PM  

Thank you, @Nancy, for that article. I think Mays would be even better playing today, as he always hit better against power pitchers than finesse pitchers. In today's game, basically everyone is a power pitcher. And now that the bases are closer together, his speed would have been even more valuable.

And had he not missed a year and a half for military service, his career would look even better.

One thing I think the article (and specifically Frank Robinson) gets wrong is the effect of Candlestick Park. Candlestick was basically an average park for hitters - and a good one for home runs - once they moved the fences in in 1961. Mays only played one year - 1960 - in Candlestick when it was death on hitters.

Anonymous 9:46 PM  

I liked the puzzle. Also found NE hard. glad Sumner was in it for Juneteenth!

Dee 1:26 AM  

Always thought Heinz was a bigger name than Hunt’s in the ketchup dept. Took a few to figure that one out.

Anonymous 4:45 AM  

Hunts over Heinz...this Pittsburgher is shaking their head....this puzzle literally "sucks" 😉🍅

Anonymous 6:29 PM  

“Hold my beer”!

Anonymous 4:51 AM  

Ha! Mine too. Had tinge for way too long.

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