Bad mouth in Britain / SUN 10-5-14 / Queen Amidala's home in Star Wars / Old roadside advertiser / Source of words mamba chimpanzee / big name in chainsaws leaf blowers / Flower that symbolizes paradise on earth

Sunday, October 5, 2014

Constructor: Samuel A. Donaldson

Relative difficulty: Medium

THEME: "Timber!" — TREEs are "falling" all over the grid, as seven (7) Across answers take a dog-leg turn Down before resuming their Across path—the Down parts of the answers spell out types of trees (with each Down part clued as TREE)

Theme answers:
Word of the Day: OBADIAH (74A: Shortest Old Testament book) —
The canonical Book of Obadiah is an oracle concerning the divine judgment of Edom and the restoration of Israel. The text consists of a single chapter, divided into 21 verses, making it the shortest book in the Hebrew Bible.
In Judaism and Christianity, its authorship is attributed to a prophet who lived in the Assyrian Periodand named himself in the first verse, Obadiah. His name means “servant of Yehowah”.
In Christianity, the book of Obadiah is classified as a minor prophet of the Old Testament, due to its short length.
In Judaism, Obadiah is considered a “later prophet” and this Masoretic Text is chronologically placed in the Tanakh under the section Nevi'im in the last category called The Twelve Prophets. (wikipedia)

• • •

This started out with [Pasta suffix], so I was like, "Damn you, Samuel A. Donaldson!" [shakes fist at sky], but the puzzle improved considerably thereafter. I ran into ETHEL MERTZ, who I thought was just ETHEL—at only four letters long (apparently), the answer seemed like its final square would be an "EL" rebus square—but once I saw [TREE] as the clue for the cross, I thought "aha, ETHELMERTZ!" And so I had the theme figured out very, very quickly. And yet finding all the "falling" trees was still an entertaining exercise. Sometimes when you suss the theme early, especially on a Sunday, completing the rest of the puzzle can feel a bit anticlimactic and even laborious, but I enjoyed the seeing the creative ways Sam came up with to hide the trees. The puzzle title, "Timber!", is apt. Perfect, even. The puzzle wasn't tough, but it was pretty delightful.

It's true that the short stuff gets a Little iffy around the edges—the ANGE + SYST area out east, the MMI / MDSE area out west, the TZE / ALEAD section around Texas, the RLESS + DSO section around Indiana, etc.—but because the theme worked so well, and because many longer, entertaining phrases were never very far away, I never felt too put off by the short stuff. Whoa, what the hell is ENYO!?! (9D: Greek war goddess). I imagine her doing R&B / hip-hop versions of a certain Irish singer's work. At any rate, URSI + ENYO is pretty barfy, but, again, look at the fine stuff around it: RISQUE, QUARTZ, STEEL TRAP, IN SPIRIT, and the full phrase AS EASY AS ABC. This puzzle proves that there are two rules about junky (or, if you like, less ideal) fill. 1. Use it as little as possible, and 2. If you must use it, have some great stuff nearby to distract and appease solvers. Overall, I found this one to be a FULL-TILT, WHIZ-BANG good time.

No Puzzle of the Week this week because I'm behind on my puzzles. Brendan Emmett Quigley tells me his puzzle should be among the contenders, and I believe him because that's why he pays me. Do it for yourself and see! Seriously, though, more Puzzle(s) of the Week next week.

My big announcement this week is that starting tomorrow, and for the first Monday in every month hereafter, Annabel Thompson, a Maryland high school senior, will be taking over this blog. She is a relative newcomer to crosswords, so she will be providing a perspective on solving that is pretty much non-existent in the puzzle blogosphere. She is smart and charming, and she was a big hit with readers when she filled in for me (on short notice) this past summer. So when she expressed willingness to fill in for me in the future, I thought: I have a better idea... So tune in for her tomorrow, and I'll see you on Tuesday.

Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld


jae 12:18 AM  

Thought this was on the easy side once I figured out what was going on.  And, yes, I liked it too.  It's the gestalt that counts and this one transcended the iffy fill.

Fugu 12:40 AM  

Theme was the last thing to come together. I spent most of the solve looking for a way to make the "-" clued strings the back halves of longer tree names that had fallen to the ground when they were chopped down. Something like "YCAS" for the down "TREE" and "MORE" for the across "-" to be a felled SYCAMORE. I was overinterpreting the puzzle title. Not the constructor's fault, but I was a little disappointed when I finally solved ETHELMERTZ.

John Child 12:41 AM  

Ambitious and impressive theme, but lots of dreck too. I wish all the themes' parts stood alone, like BURMA/ASH/HAVE and IMP/PEACH/HING, but that's too much to expect.

Word clusters I liked: ROUND ONION RINGS, and TULIP STEALER ala The Black Tulip, (Dumas, père). C STUDENTS, ANGER, and STEN GUN is creepy, but IRRITATION: AMORE SOURS made me laugh. I may be old, but I'm still RISQUÉ IN SPIRIT at least!

Fugu 12:42 AM  

Well, "ACYS" and "MORE", not ycas

Anonymous 1:56 AM  

Sometimes your brain gets stuck on stupid. I stayed with 75D BIaNNuALLY to the bitter end, convincing myself that 88A MaSS somehow made sense and that 105A AuL was some kind of superobscure crosswordese.

Got 81A ZIN from the cross, and only now figured it out (Zinfandel vs. Cabernet).

57A SWALE was tough, until it clicked that 43D MDSE could be interpreted as "MerchanDiSE".

Anyone else remember "Tippecanoe and Tyler too" from the history books?

Moly Shu 2:38 AM  

Like @Fugu, had most of it done except the Trees. When the light finally came on, I finished up quickly. One of the better theme and execution I've seen in a while.

Looking forward to Miss Thompson tomorrow. Wonder how long it will be until an anon calls her the equivalent of "rexhole", when she doesn't like something. My guess, not gonna happen.

paulsfo 3:43 AM  

@ANONYMOUS 1:56 : i had the same mispellings. :)

Thought it was easier than medium, but enjoyable, especially the theme.

One very clever clue, "Lions and tigers...and bears, sometimes?"

Bob Kerfuffle 4:09 AM  

Fun puzzle. Took me longer to catch on than it did for @Rex.

Write-overs: 21 A, BROS before ONCE; 22 A, AMOUR/AMORE; 24 A, AS EASY AS PIE/ABC; and, yes, 75 D, BIANNUALLY/BIENNIALLY.

New-to-me: 116 A, BATISTE.

Americans in Paris 4:50 AM  

Our experience was similar to that of Fugu, Anonymous and Moly Shu. Didn't get the full dog-leg trick until fairly late in the game, and the light clicked on finally with ETHE-ELM-MERTZ. Like Fugu we kept trying to figure out the third part of the tree combination without it occurring to us that there might be a front bit too.

Even when we entered TIPP at 10 across, we didn't see it. Googled to check whether indeed TIPPECANOE had ever been abbreviated to just TIPP and could not find any evidence it had. ("Old Tip", but not Tipp.) However, our research did reveal a nice related historical incident: William Henry Harrison (a.k.a. Tippecanoe), as well as his adversary, the great Indian leader, Tecumseh, had both been junior participants in the Battle of Fallen Timbers at the close of the Northwest Indian War in 1794.

Could it be that that little historical detail provided Samuel Donaldson with his theme?

Agree that the theme was cleverly executed, but with one cavil: PEACH trees are not sources of timber. At best they are sources of specialty wood. Yeah, grumble, grumble. (But somebody has to do it!)

While on things botanical, sweet potato and YAM are not synonymous: they are two different species from different parts of the world.

And what's the deal with "NACHO cheese"? Is that a new Americanism, like the British "macaroni cheese "?

Like Annonymous, entered BIaNNuALLY first and thought AUL sounded like a plausible verb for contracting a fever.

Did like the long answers, such as SANSKRIT, SALMINEO and the RISQUE answer to 45 down (ITALIAN STALLION).

Though we wouldn't rate this Sunday crossword a TEN, we felt it did DO JUSTICE to the theme, and was certainly not AS EASY AS ABC, nor was it a DEMON of a puzzle.

HAVE to return now to SOAPING the dishes IN TURN and hope I don't break any and have to TOSS them AWAY.

Danp 6:23 AM  

Somehow, I made it through life not knowing OZMA, OBADIAH, CHAST or NABOO. And the only Lorena I ever heard of should not be crossing DOJUSTICE. Other than that, fun theme, just right for a Sunday.

Looking forward to Annabel's return.

chefbea 7:12 AM  

Had to google a few things but finished the puzzle last night. Usually start it on Saturday and finish on Sunday...must have been easier than usual. Fun puzzle.

Brrr...its 46 here this morning...going up to the 70's this afternoon

Glimmerglass 8:14 AM  

Exactly as Rex worked it out, I picked up the theme right away at ETHEL MERTZ, but then, having the C from AS EASY AS ABC, I confidently wrote in old hiCkory for the political nickname. Now, first of all, that was Andrew Jackson, and second, that isn't the way the theme works (the TREES are only down, not bent). Except for that, I found the theme easy to pick up and led to seven good-sized batches of correct letters. "Medium" is a good overall rating for me.

Glimmerglass 8:16 AM  

Please ban Jeffrey Dowling

jburgs 8:20 AM  

What am I missing in the 71D "lions, tigers...and bears sometimes" clue? Aren't they always nouns. Often the answer comes to me as I'm typing out the question, but not today.

chefbea 8:30 AM  

@jburgs sometimes they are teams

zac 8:45 AM  

No. Sometimes bear is a verb. Teams are nouns.

Americans in Paris 8:48 AM  


Yes, "lions, tigers and bears" are sometimes teams -- indeed, that was our first answer to that clue. But we agree with jburgs: they are always nouns, if some times proper nouns.

Americans in Paris 8:50 AM  

OK, "bears" can be a verb. But "lions" and "tigers" not.

Leapfinger 8:51 AM  

lol, @DanP, I'd forgotten about that Lorena, even though I used to work with the replantation team! Added new meaning to the phrase 'Bob it', didn't it?

Rex didn't mention the symmetrical placement of the Falling Trees, which is another Sweet Touch, and helped me find the last two, TIP(PECAN)OE and BURM(ASH)AVE. Those and ETH(ELM)ERTZwere the only ones I got right off the bat: had to work out all the others.

So, can I say this was a Clear-Cut winner? Unfortunately, No, not with STEALER in the grid. I think I last heard that in 3rd grade: He's such a STEALER! Also, pretty hard to forgive NABOO.

However, the theme definitely carried the day. In its honour, I did the solve in the suPINE position, but really missed seeing the star of "Seven Year Itch" and "What's My Line?", TommYEWell. Except for Atlantans, I thought using PEACHTREE was a bit of a cheat, could just as well have picked photographer Robert MAPPLEthorpe or any other nut or fruit TREE. Obviously, I'm no constructor, I'm just part of the WannaBE ECHelon. Wandering somewhat into political territory, could Pres. ObaMA PLEase get Congress moving?? Enough with all the rigmarOLE AND ERuptions! Maybe also sAC A CIA agent or two. Oops, sorry, that's Secret Service, isn't it?

Thought 51D was SHAG, not SLAG; given SHIITE and WHIZBANG, that would have been just too much fodder for ED. Am expecting the RooMonster to come up with an asterisk about why we Pin Down but SEW UP. ;)

The fill does raise a couple of questions:
Are C-STUDENTS D-TESTABLE? Enquiring minds...

Also: AMORE SOURS? Das gibt mir schMERTZ! I'll just say that happens sometimes, but fortunately not always.

I found this a delight to solve and really quite a wonderful Sunday. The only SAD thing about it was the constructor's initials.

joho 8:56 AM  

Ingenious, Sam A. Donaldson ... LOVED this puzzle!

Like @Rex I got the theme at ETHELMERTZ but that in no way dampened my fun. TIPPECANOE and BURMASHAVE brought smiles, too.

Is 105D, "Plant ASEED" part of the theme perhaps?

My rating? WHIZBANG!

Bookdeb 8:57 AM  

@AiP. Thus the ellipsis...

NCA President 9:01 AM  

Lucy's friend (she had only one) tipped me off immediately to something rebussey...then I read the title and saw Timber! (with that exclamation point...meaning that the tree was...ahem...falling). So I got the theme very early on. I kept looking for the more famous trees: willow, maple, aspen, poplar, etc. But no, so PEACH and PECAN took a little extra time to suss out. Had ASH where OAK should've been at one point because unwashed stains can also be "pre-washed" which is a form of PRESOAKing, so I was kinda right. ish.

Seemed like an overabundance of Brit. clues. Just because they speak English over there doesn't mean that we Americans know all of their little isms, awards, and armament. With all due respect to the Brits, of course...but seriously, whether you say SLAG when you should be saying slur is just not included in my day to day concerns.

PRANCEDAROUND didn't hit me immediately as "cavorting," but having looked deeper into the definition, I see that cavorting doesn't necessarily mean "applying oneself enthusiastically to sexual or disreputable pursuits." Mind = gutter.

Otherwise, you know, puzzle.

Americans in Paris 9:03 AM  

Great post, leapfinger!

BTW, "shag" is someting you do behind a tree, and doesn't usually involve a mouth, "bad" or otherwise.

Arlene 9:14 AM  

Beautiful puzzle. I saw that ETHEL didn't fit, so figured it must be FRED - so I didn't get the theme until PRANCEDAROUND.
This was my idea of the perfect Sunday - just the right amount of angst, elegant construction - and then every single square filled it. TREEmendous!

Carola 9:15 AM  

Really nice Sunday puzzle! Just-tricky-enough theme with PASSELS of witty grid treats. Fun!

I got off to an uncertain start, thinking that the chain saw company was STIeL, so tried to shoehorn ETHEL in there rebus-wise. However, after MERTZ began to materialize, I saw the falling ELM and understood "Tim-berrrr!"

Even though I'm a newpaper subscriber, I usually do the Sunday puzzles online because I don't like writing on the shiny paper in the mag and printing it out on regular paper seems wasteful (I know). But this time, I abandoned the screen for the magazine so that I could highlight all of the toppling trees. Really admired the constructing feat.

Somehow I like the fact that the center theme cross is C-STUDENTS PRANCED AROUND. While all those A-students were in the libe.

My husband is great at confusing common phrases ("Earning money hand over foot," "Haven't seen head nor hair of him."), one of my favorites being his attempt to praise me by telling friends I have a "clapTRAp" memory.

Mohair Sam 9:23 AM  

Having the blog done on Mondays by a WHIZ kid who is relatively new to the crossworld is a great idea on many levels. Plus Rex's early week commentary is often strained, understandably. Looking forward to the change.

Medium solve for us - we join the group who took forever to suss the theme. Knew there was one, just struggled to find it. Also held up by Lucy's four-lettered friend, fred, instead of ETHE for far too long.

Liked it for the reasons stated by @Rex and many above. Thought putting CSTUDENTS in the dead middle of the puzzle was really clever. LORENA Ochoa a favorite in this household, classy young lady as well as a great golfer.
Any puzzle with RISQUE can't be all bad.

One nit - TULIP is a tree too, and it was placed in a down location. We spent a minute or two trying to work with FATULIPRESO (new Italian brewing method?) until we realized the down wasn't clued TREE.

Fun Sunday solve.

Loren Muse Smith 9:24 AM  

This one was fairly easy for me, too. I smelled a rat at the PRESOAKED entry, with that PRE firmly in place. Once I confirmed it with ETHEL, like Rex, I was going the rebus route until the Z in QUATRZ showed me the way.

Cool idea, Sam! Don't just disguise the tree in a phrase, but drop it down in the middle! @Leapfinger -how 'bout FIREFIGHTER, KANYE WEST, HAPPINESS, and DROP EARRING?

ONION RINGS – "Diner side dish." I really considered this clue and decided that as least for me, it's spot-on. I would Never make onion rings at home. As much as I lovedeep- fried food, its preparation intimidates me to no end.

I have several students in middle school whose speech is R-LESS, and they get to see the speech therapist only once a week for thirty minutes. What's heartening is that I have never, ever witnessed any student making fun of these guys. Last week, though, a teacher was relaying a conversation and mimicked a student's speech. My blood ran cold.

The school I'm in is among the poorest counties in WV, our second-poorest state. There are days when I get to my car and cry for the first few miles because of more and more home circumstances I'm being made aware of.

Funny – I cooked chicken thighs just last night, and since they were pretty big, I vaguely worried about salmineo as I ate mine. So far so good, I'm happy to report.

"You're darn tootin'" is the same number of letters as YOU'RE NOT KIDDING. And when you're spelling INFIRMARY on a stair step, it messes with the word's visual picture. I had to write it out to decide on ery vs ARY. Also- came very close to a personal triple Natick at the OZMA/OBADIAH/CHAST crosses, but my reptilian crossword brain came through in the end.

I smile every time I pass a STIHL sign around here. They're everywhere.

I guess we savvy selfie-ers are learning to hold the phone up higher than the face. Double CHINS and all that. . .

Sam – you de mon. loved it!

jberg 9:35 AM  

@Loren, I'm just not gonna say anything about you and SAL MINEO's thighs. Actually, I was slow to get that answer because I couldn't clear my mind of James Dean -- kept saying to myself, come one, it wasn't a solo performance, but the rest of the cast was just a blank until I had most of the corsses.

I knew neither NABOO (was Lucas making fun of the Mormons there?) nor TONI, but the O was slightly more plausible, so that came out all right.

Like everyone said, a lovely theme, fun to solve.

AliasZ 9:38 AM  

I don't know about you, but in my version of the puzzle all the TREEs are standing erect. It is TIPPECANOE, ETHELMERTZ etc. who have fallen and can't get up because they are broken in two places.

- I wonder if AHEADOFTIME is bigger than AHEADOFlettuce.
- I was PRESOAKED until I was caught in a torrential downpour. I'm STIHL soaked.
- What do BURMAS HAVE that no one else does?
- Changing two DETESTABLE letters can turn it delectable.
- Mamba, mantra: which came from which, BANKRIT or SANSTU?
- C.S.TUDENTS are experts in C.S.Lewis novels.
- A passel of or PASSELS of -- which is correct?

ALEAD, ASEED, IFNO, INA and INI RLESS than ideal fill today, not to mention ZIN, TZE, RHOS, YAPAT, DSO, NOP, ETS, RIA, BBS and a few others.

Otherwise this was not a DETESTABLE puzzle: a clever theme and some very attractive long entries, of which WHIZBANG, INSPIRIT, TOSSAWAY and YOU'RE NOT KIDDING really DO it JUSTICE, and I ain't kiddin'.

Enjoy your sunny Sunday (in NYC) with this delectable excerpt from the tragédie en musique titled Atys by Jean-BATISTE Lully (1632-1687).

Anonymous 9:40 AM  


Maruchka 9:59 AM  

OH HI moments galore! Took awhile to suss. Missteps: Van for ZIN (did not know that cab is wine-ese); Swamp for SWALE; Set in for PRESO(aked). Loved the breezy feel and appreciated the SLANTs.

DNF, tho. Had to peek online : - (

Fav of the day - PASSELS. Ain't heerd 'n donkey yars, pard.

@Glimmerglass - Hear, hear!

@Leap - Agree re: STEALER. Oof. Just to say, reading your posts is always word-while.

SHAG v. SLAG debate - I say, how rude. Do keep on.

Thank you, Mr. Donaldson

Suzy 10:09 AM  


Nancy 10:10 AM  

Allow me to clap FOR ESTeemed puzzle!
This was great fun and not too hard, once I caught on -- quite early at ETHEL MERTZ. Then I had the architecture and it all fell into place, so to speak. Would someone like to tell me what (a) KOA is???? Had to guess at the "A", because I didn't know SLAG either. But that's a small matter. A delightful Sunday.

Suzy 10:11 AM  

Thought I was replying to Glimmerglass-- please ban Dowling immediately! Great puzzle!

Whirred Whacks 10:14 AM  

31 Down's clue made me smile: "Queue for Q." NOP

We've been getting a lot of SAL or SAL MINEO LATELY. I'd say he's made quite a comeback.

I'd certainly contact @JeffreyDowling's Brave Spell Caster if I thought he could make Saturday's puzzles easier for me to solve.

Ludyjynn 10:17 AM  

I thought it was interesting that the weakest answer, STEALER, crossed my favorite, RLESS. Here, in Balto., local restaurants go so far as to post banners during R months that "oysters R in", meaning that my guilty pleasure, oyster stew, is back on the menu. YUM. Best oyster stew I ever sampled was in Seattle at the Fisherman's Exchange; no surprise, eh? Double YUM!

Enjoyed seeing the hilarious Roz CHAST on the grid and the clever Stallone clue/response.

Thanks, SAD and WS. This was a promising start to the day..can the Orioles wrap it up in Detroit this afternoon...we shall see.

Paul Bunyon 10:41 AM  

Nice idea, epic fail on execution. Have any of you actually had occasion to yell Timber!? Apparently not, for if you had you would know that the tree in question ends up horizontal. If any of you had ever left your 27th floor co-op with concierge service delivering you firewood you would know that. You would have known that using the exact same puzzle but rotating it 90 degrees you would have created confluence between the puzzle and the title of the puzzle. Or, at the very least, you could have left the exclamation point off the title.

Maruchka 10:43 AM  

@Nancy - KOA = Kampgrounds (sic) of America. A commercial alternative to actual camping. Many moons ago, while trying to sleep in a harvested corn field next to a S. Dakota KOA, I was driven crazy by the wind blowing through the dry stalks. Picked up my bag, went to their laundry room, and sort of got some relief, thanks to KOA.

Maruchka 11:03 AM  

@Gill, @Wreck - thanks for continuing the great Martini debate yesterday.

@Gill - Gin makes me crazy, so I shake Tito's vodka with delight. Never heard of your brands...must investigate.

Leapfinger 11:22 AM  

@AmerinParis, merci bien! Do you know the Rue des Belles Feuilles? I used to live at 'Soixante et onze' as a kid; now GoogleMaps shows the cobblestones are paved over, the chestnut orchard across the street is gone, and there's a McDonald's down at the intersection with Boul. Victor Hugo. True?

@Alias, you had me lolling at your gagging, but surprised that you passed on James RLESS of Gunsmoke. Particularly nice is your change from DETESTABLE to DElEcTABLE: I'm a big fan of the butterfly effect. Seriously though, you seem to have a thing about e-rectitude; suggest maybe you avoid ladies named Lorena...??

@Loren, otoh, has some wonderful Salmineo poisonal experiences, as @jberg notes (thigh). M'Amuse, I've been worrying about you & your Klassroom Kidz; I have access to all kinds of random stuff (art supplies, books, clothing) that can be had for the merest or no song at all. If this is any good to all y'all in WVa, email me, and we can think about how to make the tranfer. [ps, I've heard MDs similarly mock patients; bad news, indeed!]

Anonymous 11:33 AM  

Loved this one! Had to Googlemjust a few things, which isn't too bad for me. The theme was fun once I caught onto it.

I have a question for you crucifeverbalists. The new iPad app for the NYT puzzle has subscription rates that are way higher than the old Magmic NYT app, which I thought was very reasonably priced. Is there another way to get the daily puzzles electronically without subscribing to the Times?


quilter1 11:36 AM  

So I had lots filled in but hadn't twigged to the trick yet. Went and fetched a bowl of cereal, sat back down and BURMA SHAVE magically appeared before my eyes. Aha! and the puzzle was history. Well, they say a good breakfast improves one's performance.

Anonymous 11:47 AM  

@Paul Bunyon,

Yelling "timber" when the tree is already horizontal is like yelling "fore" after the golf ball has already landed on the green.

Americans in Paris 11:57 AM  

@Learfinger: all true, I'm afraid!

@Anonymous: well said.

@PaulBunyon: thanks for resurecting the ol' rural-vs-urban, sons of the soil versus elitist city dwellers rivalry. Some of us have spent time in both types of environments. And, in any case, snark (is that a Britishism, too?) doesn't play well here.

mac 12:15 PM  

Medium Sunday, good puzzle and a fun solve. I didn't get the theme quite as quickly, but reasonable so to make it easier.

KOA and OZRA were new to me, but gettable.

You can buy nacho cheese at the supermarket, a coarsely grated mild cheese that melts easily. I think it has no flavor whatsoever.

Pranced around made me think of the hilarious clips that are around about the newish exercise method: Prancercizing.

Leapfinger 12:26 PM  

@Paul Bunyon [sic],

Had you known the proper spelling of 'Bunyan', rather than halfway making it a big-toe deformity, I would have felt it behooved me to consider your complaints. As it stands, not so much, Babe.

r.alphbunker 12:31 PM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
r.alphbunker 12:34 PM  

Nice puzzle.

I spent a bit of time looking for a concealed "forest" so I could say that I couldn't see the forest for the trees but the closest I came was
128A {WordS FOR EnTering a united state}. Maybe because of all the different types of trees one could say that it was a "mixed" forest but that it still formed a united state.

Maybe @Lewis can find another forest.

I think having Annabel post on Monday is an excellent idea. Maybe she will be an inspiration for @jae's granddaughter.

Masked and Anonymo9Us 12:41 PM  

A peach.

Nice, clean, fun SunPuz. A lot of long answers got to run loose, free from the theme-o-sphere, which really livened things up. Some often complain, when the longer answers aren't the themers, sayin it might "confuse" the solver. Don't much subscribe to that there theory. I was confused for about ten seconds of I Love Lucy internal reruns, then smoothly wrote in ETHELMERTZ, forested version.

fave weejects: INI INA. OMN NOP. Random Roman numeral MMI. Random Numeric word TEN.

fave fillins: WHIZBANG. QUARTZ. RISQUE. PASSELS. ITALIANSTALLION. No X, even tho I suspect that little SE corner could've been reworked, to let the pangram sneak in.

thUmbsUp. Thanx, Sam.



Fred Romagnolo 12:46 PM  

My mother loved a bit of the onion juice in her Gibsons. I didn't know KOA, CHAST, and can't figure why CSINY is a "procedural" What's wrong with STEALER? Third-graders also say "am too." @Amers in Paris didn't get the tree tie-in after TIPP, it bothered me till(until) I did. I thought I knew my Greek goddesses, but ENYO was new to me. I also didn't know STIHL, cudda been an a (semolina) and the name Stahl is not uncommon. @ludyjynn: Seatlle's Fisherman Exchange is overwhelming. I'm another for ShAG before SLAG.

Martin 12:56 PM  

A procedural is the opposite of a serial. Each episode is self-contained: mystery, investigation, solution. So whatever the hell else "Lost" was, it was a serial. Most dramas on TV are procedurals. They're a lot easier to syndicate as reruns, because order doesn't much matter.

Many people call "CSI" a serial, but that's not actually correct

Angela Anaïs Juana Antolina Rosa Edelmira Nin y Culmell 1:02 PM  

[Secret message to M&A, because I don't know where else to post it:] Angela Anaïs Juana Antolina Rosa Edelmira Nin y Culmell is a girl's name, not a boy's name.

Anonymous 1:07 PM  

FIR is a type of tree (conifer). Not a specific tree as were all the others clued: PECAN, ELM, CEDAR, OAK, ASH, PEACH. Minor complaint. But an inconsistent answer.

I'm surprise that the uber OCD Rex didn't have a cow about that.

Martin 1:15 PM  

There are about 50 species of fir worldwide. There are about 600 species of oak. I don't get your point.

Andrew Heinegg 1:28 PM  

Yes, please do!

RooMonster 1:43 PM  

Hey All!
Thought I was king (insert explecitive here) when I finished the puz with what I thought was no errors. Checked and found 2 wrong letters!! Had emMA for OZMA. SLAG!!!!!! Heck, eBADIAH and mIN sounded good to m!

Hands up for the late-theme-figuring-out crowd. 60A finally clued me in, as had PRE, and was trying to figure out what it was. PREdO? PRE(some kind of rebus)? Had the PEPSI and the KIDDING, finally hit the Aha when OAK gave me KED. Same with the PRANC across, really wanted PRANk, but knew the TREE wasn't a kEDAR! Like others, BIaNNuALLY for quite a while, but knew AuL had to be AIL, then got MESS for wreck (hi @wreck) and got the ENNIAL bit. Also, tnt for AMP tillthe bitter end! After figured out the theme, changed it and finally saw PSHAW.

So, nice puz overall. Nice Sundayian fill. No ANGER.

STEALERing away,

Quo Vadis 1:59 PM  

. . . a bemused Sydneysider asks . . . so how is ZIN an alternative for CAB?

mac 2:13 PM  

@Quo Vadis:
Cabernet vs, Zinfandel. I prefer a Pin(ot noir).

Anonymous 2:28 PM  

Both red wines, we think.

Great puzzle!

D and A

Casco Kid 2:32 PM  

Like, @Roo, no ANGER. Fun. Pretty easy over all. Cracked theme in first 15 min. "-" clues are transparent, now. I held on to some wrongness in NE and south longer than was advisable, so finished in just under 2 hr with one mindless sin: OsMA/sIN. Otherwise clean solve. How will I remember the Z is OZMA when I pronounce OsMA the exact same way? That's the old verbal cortex betraying a solve.

I'm looking forward to Annabel's perspective as a new solver. She's filling a gaping vacany. New solvers don't contribute their voices, so I hoping to gain insight on the cognitive processes at work in sussing without the benefit of thousands of solves under your belt, especially in light of the loose relationship between some clues and their official solutions.

@PaulB I note your point and adjudge that you are "not wrong." That's the best I can do.

@LosinIt Lots of papers run NYTXW one week late. You might be ablet o photocopy your public library's local newspaper XW page and solve a week late. Otherwise, I would not be ashamed to trade value for value. The constructors gotta be paid.

Numinous 2:47 PM  

@Quo Vadis: ZINfandel, a California varietal and CABernet Sauvignon.

SLAGging may be hurling disparaging comments but it is the least common use of the word, SLAG. More commonly in British slanguage, a SLAG is a "loose promiscuous woman". There maybe elements of "skank" thrown in, a less than appealing woman possibly due to considerations of sanitation. So, @Leapfinger, a SLAG ShAG behind a tree might be appropriate after all.

This one took me half again as long as it should have. I got most of the way through without filling in a single tree. What stumped me most was not being able to tell which three-letter went where. I finally twigged at BURMA SHAVE. I had HAVE and suspected BURMA and suddenly I saw the way it fell out. That sent me hopping like a squirrel from branch to branch of the clues looking for the acorns of dashes.

I used to live in California and bought zinfandel by the case believing that in CA that's what ONE should drink since it was (in the 70s) largely available nowhere else. When I cottoned on to ZIN I remembered (duh!) of course a princess of OZ would have that in her name.

I could have many of the same complaints as a lot of the commentariat but I'd rather side with Jeff Chen in xwordinfo: given the brilliance of this woodpile and the constraints it imposed, some less than optimum fill is to be expected and excused.

@AliasZ. It's my understanding that STIHL in German is pronounced "steel". The pronunciation I learned for the vowels in European languages was "Aah, ay, eee, oh, ooh". People look at me funny when I say my electric razor is a "brown" (Braun). When the Suisse flic was questioning my friend Dave Brown, he kept calling him Monsieur "Broon". No, we weren't smuggling drugs, the flic didn't believe that the MGB we were driving could legally carry a third passenger and since the car was registered to someone else, he was afraid we might have stolen it. We hadn't done that either. The flic was further incensed when the third member of our party, Zdzyslaw, told the cop to read the name for himself from the passport (simplified pronunciation for the non-Poles amongst y'all: Juslav).

Hands up all of you who are familiar with the works of Mo-Tze. LOL

Gill I. P. 2:47 PM  

I usually get bored with Sunday puzzles, this one kept me wanting more of the NABOO, PSHAW, WHIZ BANG, SHAG answers. Such a TONI puzzle; clever as hell construction SAD....I'll take more of these each Sunday please.
@Leapy...Do you spose LORENA left out the SOAPING during her BRIEF BANTU?
@Ludyjynn: If you like raw OYSTERS and if you happen to be in Half Moon Bay, California, the Miramar restaurant on the beach (puppy friendly) has the best, sweetest oysters this side of the Mississippi....
@Maruchka....Alas, inexpensive, run-of-the-mill gin (like champagne) gives me a headache as well.
"Fifty Pounds" almost costs that much but dang, it will change your mind about gin. It tastes good on the rocks as well....
@Rex. What a wonderful idea...I can't wait for Monday. My go to novice and her interpretation of a puzzle is our daughter. Good for you!
@Loren....WV is lucky to have you!

Paul B (won't risk a typo here) 2:52 PM  

Jeez - tough crowd today. Faulting for typos, being accused of misplaced snark ("snark doesn't play well here" - do you actually read this page? M and A?), people taking seriously an absurd rant posted by an obviously made up commenter. A simple point was made. Per Rex:
THEME: "Timber!" — TREEs are "falling" all over the grid, as seven (7) Across answers take a dog-leg turn Down before resuming their Across path—the Down parts of the answers spell out types of trees (with each Down part clued as TREE)

Yet the trees remain the only upright portion of the theme answers.

I wish you could see my captcha - there's a woman staring in horror or wonderment at the house number.

Numinous 2:57 PM  

The wife of the guy who taught me to sail in Sydney (They had been refugees from Nazi Germany) used to mangle idioms too. A couple of her most famous:
The flaw in the ointment.
Turning the handle at both ends.

wreck 3:18 PM  

Moving a little slow today ...... For some reason, a few Martinis sounded good last night.
Like many, I got the trick at ETHELMERTZ. From there on it went pretty briskly. Sunday's under an hour are pretty fast for me.

JC66 3:24 PM  

@Casco Kid said...

"How will I remember the Z is OZMA when I pronounce OsMA the exact same way? That's the old verbal cortex betraying a solve."

It might help if you recall that L.Frank Baum wrote The Wizard of Oz.

Casco Kid 3:29 PM  

@JC66 ;)

M and Also 3:36 PM  

@Angela Doubledot Anais: I humbly apologize and remain wrong-once-again-M&A-breath, and stand corrected.

@Gill I.P.--Agree that Annabel on First Monday is an inspired @63 idea. And I also look forward to it.

@muse--Bless your heart. I know U R already full up with important stuff to take care of, but U would sure make a dandy Last Monday (or somesuch) sub, for old @63, someday. On a far lesser note, also miss our puz collaboration sessions. Leavin a note at U-know-where, if U get a chance to look sometime.

Our road trip got slowed down a tad by a blown-up credit card. We did get to attend a primo nth high school class reunion, last weekend, out at a gigantic country ranch house. Spouse chatted with many of her former classmates and loved it. Me, I mostly chatted with old George out back, who was overseein the huge outdoor bar-B-Q ovens. George collects arrowheads he finds in a nearby canyon, when the rattlesnakes are out of season. Has seen mountain lions and evidently also some giant wild boars (may've been talkin about me, tho). The sunset over the canyon was really somethin else. But I overdigress.

Peace on earth, and good will to all our leafy friends. And all the best to the children of WV.


AliasZ 3:45 PM  

@Leaps and bounds,


Also, there is nothing wrong with STEALER. You must have heard of Rickey Henderson, The Man of Steal, the greatest base STEALER with 1,406 stolen bases (second is Lou Brock with 938), but never once did he steal the second base and take it home with him, as far as I know.


Maybe you can explain the logic of the theme. All TREEs are standing intact. They have not fallen. Where does TIMBER! come in? It is a warning to alert everyone that what had been vertical will quickly become horizontal and better get out of the way. Perhaps TIMBER! refers instead to the theme entries, which breaking in just the right places during their fall, reveal a perfectly erect TREE. Or perhaps TIMBER! refers to the fact that the hidden trees inside the theme entries have fallen into a vertical column at a 90° angle away from the way we would usually see them spelled out left-to-right in our horizontal world of writing.

Yeah, I get it, but the logic today does not lend itself to over-analysis. Crossword themes rarely do.

r.alphbunker 4:01 PM  
This comment has been removed by the author.
r.alphbunker 4:03 PM  


Down = fall

If you were at the bottom of the grid and looked up you would see the trees falling towards you.

There have been other puzzles in the past where the "down-ness" of an answer somehow contributes to the theme.

I recently did a puzzle where the down answer BDONE was clued {Appear cooked to near incineration??} (Be over done) and the down answer THEGUNB was clued {Have a great deal on one's plate??} (Be under the gun)

I know for sure that this device has been used in NYT puzzles but can't think of which ones.

RooMonster 4:30 PM  

@AlasZ, to steal an M&Aism.................



AliasZ 4:33 PM  


Thanks, I got it. In fact I spelled it out in my previous post: "...hidden trees inside the theme entries have fallen into a vertical column at a 90° angle away from the way we would usually see them spelled out..." I was just playing with the concept of TIMBER! and see how many different ways it can be misinterpreted.

Maruchka 4:37 PM  

@Ludyjynn - The chowda in Seattle - yum! Great pasta fagioli at Salumi, close to Pike's Market. AND - watching the Os and Tigers game, hoping for an orange/black showdown!

@Loren - Grown ups say the stupidest things. Wish you and your kids the best.

@Wreck - Know the feeling.

Mrs. Cone 5:02 PM  

Hey, don't needle me, I'm stihl pining for a fir coat. Yes, I know, some people say I have a mind like a steel sieve.

@NuminRus, dear boy, when I saw the FITB, 'Philosopher Mo ___, my mind went straight to Mo Rocca. All I know now is Ha! Mo TZE lechem min ha'aretz.

True story. I know this young feller who was cutting down a tree with his dad. They had just wedged it when the kid decided to tidy up by brushing some tree-crumbs off the cut surface, and the tree came down Whomp! on the tips of 4 fingers. Instead of being such a neatnik, he should have just yelled "Timber!" and gotten out of the way. But seventeen, you know?

Martin 5:27 PM  


Sure. The themes are horizontal, except for a portion that "falls," which happens to be a tree. It's called wordplay.

Numinous 5:36 PM  

In Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate, we find that timber refers to growing trees and their wood and to wood used in carpentry as well as being an interjection to warn of a falling tree. While doing the puzzle I never once thought of fallen trees. I saw words horizontally as they should be but with the tree parts vertical as they should be.

Come to think of it @AliasZ, when I lived in Australia, I wanted to build a coffee table. I needed some wood. Off we went to the timber yard. It seems that lumber has an entirely different meaning in English English. In English slang, to lumber is to burden. So I bought some lengths of 3x2 timber and built a very nice butcher block inspired coffee table.

Anonymous 5:37 PM  

It's all right, Fellers, we all get it. The trees are falling down and they can't get up.

And CascoK got the OZma part.

LHS 888 5:40 PM  

3rd attempt to post... Aaaaargh!

Late to the party today. I ran an half marathon this morning, and I needed recovery time. ^_^

I really liked this puzzle. I spent 70 min. and found the puzzle gave me just enough challenge to be really enjoyable. My solving experience was just as @Rex described, although much slower, obvi. I cottoned onto the theme at ETHYLMERTZ. And, like @LMS I suffered a personal triple Natick at the OZMA/OBADIAH/CHAST crosses. I finally looked up OBADIAH in the bible and was instantly rewarded with Mr. Happy Pencil. Too bad it was an official DNF. So very close... Dang it!

@Casco - I consider my solving capability roughly on par with yours. Your comments and those of the other contributors here have brought my game up tremendously. Until 2-3 months ago I couldn't get anywhere with Thurs. rebus puzzles. I still struggle with Thurs-Sat puzzles, but I get closer every week. So, thanks!

Thank you very, very much SAD & WS!!

sanfranman59 6:15 PM  

This week's relative difficulty ratings. See my 8/1/2009 post for an explanation and my 10/15/2012 post for an explanation of a tweak I've made to my method. In a nutshell, the higher the ratio, the higher this week's median solve time is relative to the average for the corresponding day of the week.

All solvers (this week's median solve time, average for day of week, ratio, percentile, rating)

Mon 7:15, 6:03, 1.20, 96%, Challenging (12th highest ratio of 247 Mondays)
Tue 8:11, 7:50, 1.04, 64%, Medium-Challenging
Wed 9:39, 9:30, 1.02, 59%, Medium
Thu 18:39, 17:32, 1.06, 64%, Medium-Challenging
Fri 20:24, 19:38, 1.04, 63%, Medium-Challenging
Sat 27:02, 25:57, 1.04, 67%, Medium-Challenging
Sun 29:56, 27:44, 1.08, 71%, Medium-Challenging

Top 100 solvers

Mon 4:55, 3:57, 1.24, 98%, Challenging (6th highest ratio of 247 Mondays)
Tue 5:22, 5:21, 1.00, 50%, Medium
Wed 6:37, 6:12, 1.07, 69%, Medium-Challenging
Thu 13:37, 11:06, 1.23, 80%, Challenging
Fri 13:13, 12:34, 1.05, 59%, Medium
Sat 18:04, 18:06, 1.00, 49%, Medium
Sun 20:59, 20:52, 1.01, 53%, Medium

Ray J 6:49 PM  

Terrific puzzle! Huge smile at 91D. Reminded me of the Whizbang Chicken Plucker I used to see advertised in Mother Earth News.

misspriss58 9:12 PM  

Never knew KOA--love learning new things. Thanks forum repliers!! Puzzle took me awhile and I enjoyed every minute. My favorite was Rless--stared at the answer for quite awhile trying to figure out what I did wrong--then the steel trap opened! Thanks for making my Sunday such fun!

Janet 9:33 PM  

Ursa or bear is feminine, so the plural us russe; ursi is the plural for masculine.

Charles Flaster 11:13 PM  

Big time DNF.Absolutely loved the construction and theme.
Would hand been tons more difficult without "TIMBER" being given.
Just LOVED the puzzle.
Thanks very much SAD.

Anonymous 11:52 PM  

@martin Per Merriam Webster. FIR "a tall evergreen tree". FIR is a synonym for EVERGREEN. OAK is NOT a synonym for DECIDUOUS.

Think Venn diagrams. All OAKs are deciduous. Not all deciduous trees are OAKs. All EVERGREENs are FIRs (slash conifers hence the name FIR) and All FIRs are EVERGREENs.

Andrew Morrison 11:53 PM  

Crumb. I slogged through this one. I think I made it a lot harder than it should have been. I saw the light regarding the theme very quickly thanks to remembering the phrase "Tippecanoe and Tyler too." Still, brain did not want to engage. I think this puzzle took 2x my usual, but I had to stop for my kids' soccer and hockey gamed, plus my own hockey game, so I didn't have a good uninterrupted session. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it!

Martin 12:23 AM  

Any of a genus (Abies) of north temperate evergreen trees. Fir is not a synonym for evergreen. A cedar is not a fir. But whatever.

Martin 12:36 AM  

I just got that you're conflating fir with conifer. Not the same thing at all. That's where you went off the rails.

I don't know about you, but I feel much better now.

Americans in Paris 4:12 AM  

@Anonymous (11:52 p.m.)

"All EVERGREENs are FIRs (slash conifers hence the name FIR)"

Translation, please? Are you confusing "slash conifer" with "slash pine"?

Leapfinger 6:30 AM  

Have to say I got a kick out of 'conifer hence fir'. That may keep me from confusing peanuts with pine-nuts.

Fred Romagnolo 10:34 AM  

@Martin: Thanks, born in 1931 and still learning!

John Hagen 11:13 AM  

Welcome. You are a refreshing change (and do not mean this in a negative manner toward Rex.) I mean it from the standpoint of bringing another generation of commentator to the table ... which is refreshing. Cheers. John Hagen

Z 3:04 PM  

Finished this Monday after spending Saturday at Art Prize in Grand Rapids and spending Sunday being deeply disappointed. The American League is the perfect example of why being better on paper isn't enough.

Also glad that this is a "finished" and not a "finished with two errors." I had gOOn crossing BAgISTE and nORENA, both of which are WOEs, but decided TOOL was a better answer. Yay. All in all, a fine Sunday. My personal favorite in quite awhile.

@Paul B. - If you're going to do snark you have to be sure you didn't miss anything. I understood the trees to be falling down right away because that wordplay on down answers has been used before. For future reference, Paul Bunyan/Damon Runyon. Also, someone commenting that snark has no place here is a fine example of metasnark and should receive a wry "touché."

@AnonyFIR - Oops. It's a good thing that I don't feel guilty about schadenfreude.

rain forest 1:10 AM  

Coupla things. First, the girlfriend was under the weather so I did the puzzle Sat. night which is very unusual. Second, really appreciated the video of Vancouver's own Frazey Ford--watch for her.

Loved the puzzle. Ignoring the nitpickers who will sniff out *anything* to spoil the day, the theme was clever and well-executed; the fill was outstanding for a big Sunday job; the entertainment value was way up there. What else would one like in a puzzle, especially a Sunday, unless you like to sweat for several hours? Hmm?

After finishing, checked in on the girlfriend and got a little smackeroo, 'cuz I'm a noted kiss STEALER.

2715 apparently not a baccarat stealer, though

spacecraft 12:49 PM  

I saw the cab/ZIN connection, but only because I luckily ran into Princess OZMA just the other day. To pull ZIN out of that clue? That's expecting an AWFUL lot, Sam. A few more examples of endweek cluing exist, but all are gettable with cross help. Yep, medium it is.

And like OFL I "fell" into the gimmick exactly the same way he did. Was this a rebus? Checking 28d and finding TREE, the whole thing came to light. I was slightly disappointed that all of the ending acrosses weren't real words, like ROUND and HAVE. I guess that's asking too much.


Ya gotta love it. Those were the days, me and my buddy sitting in the rumble-seat of the roadster...

Great long non-themers: YOURENOTKIDDING. They DOJUSTICE to today's effort, negating the effect of the inevitable subpar peripheral fill in a 21x21.

I might mention STENGUN, a green-paint entry, and "STEALER?" A real enough word, to be sure--but who says that? Still, withal I'm going to give it an A-. Nice use of Scrabbly letters.

325: PSHAW!

paulsfo 2:53 PM  

@spacecraft: I'm not an expert on green paint but i don't think STENGUN fits. I've never seen 'sten' by itself in a novel, and, for example, has 'sten gun' but *not* 'sten' by itself (except as an abbreviation for stenographer).

Jeffrey Dowling 8:35 PM  

I want to testify that my wife is back after a Divorce !!!

Hello to every one out here, am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me three days ago, My name is Jeffrey Dowling,i live in Texas,USA.and I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to “bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr Brave for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again.{} , Thanks.

Anonymous 8:53 PM  

Who is Dowling?

Anonymous 9:05 PM  

Uh now I know why Dowling should be banned ! Most irritating!

Anonymous 9:07 PM  


Anonymous 4:46 AM  

Re Dowling: just a new Nigerian scam. Somewhere down the line it's still "send money".

Dirigonzo 11:13 AM  

Yesterday (Sunday) was too nice a day to stay inside but too cool to solve on the pool deck, so it was quite late when my frequent house-guest and sometimes puzzle-partner and I got to this thing of beauty. We were slower than some in picking up on the theme but naming all of the trees and seeing the ingenious ways the fit into the longer answers was a ton of fun. Our TOPHATS are off to Samuel A. Donaldson for an original, fun puzzle.

1158 ties me with @rainy.

james mack 10:15 AM  

My name is yurich jerry am from USA. i want to use this opportunity to thank my great doctor who really made my life a pleasurable one today. This great man DR.Ogboni brought my husband back to me, i had three lovely kids for my husband, about four years ago i and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me for one lady. i felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, until one day i met a good friend of mine that was also in a situation like me but her problem was her ex-boyfriend who she had an unwanted pregnancy for and he refused to take responsibility and dumped her. she told me that mine was a small case and that i should not worry about it at all, so i asked her what was the solution to my problems and she gave me this great man email address. i was doubting if this man was the solution, so i contacted this great man and he told me what to do and i deed them all, he told me to wait for just two day and that my husband will come crawling on his kneels just for forgiveness so i faithfully deed what this great man asked me to do and for sure after two days i heard a knock on the door, in a great surprise i saw him on his kneels and i was speechless, when he saw me, all he did was crying and asking me for forgiveness, from that day, all the pains and sorrows in my heart flew away,since then i and my husband and our lovely kids are happy.that's why i want to say a big thank you to DR.Ogboni spiritual temple. This great man made me to understand that there is no problem on earth that has no solution so please if you know that you have this same problem or any problem that is similar, i will advise you to come straight to this great man. you can email him at:

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