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Relative difficulty: Medium (solving Downs-only)
Theme answers:
- SET A NEW RECORD (20A: Make history at the Olympics, say)
- TURN THE TABLES (25A: Totally reverse one's losing position)
- MOVE THE NEEDLE (43A: Have an impact that can be gauged)
- DON'T MISS A BEAT (48A: Keep going without faltering one bit)
AM stereo is a term given to a series of mutually incompatible techniques for radio broadcasting stereo audio in the AM band in a manner that is compatible with standard AM receivers. There are two main classes of systems: independent sideband (ISB) systems, promoted principally by American broadcast engineer Leonard R. Kahn; and quadrature amplitude modulation (QAM) multiplexing systems (conceptually closer to FM stereo).Initially adopted by many commercial AM broadcasters in the mid to late 1980s, AM stereo broadcasting soon began to decline due to a lack of receivers (most "AM/FM stereo" radios only receive in stereo on FM), a growing exodus of music broadcasters to FM, concentration of ownership of the few remaining stations in the hands of large corporations and the removal of music from AM stations in favor of news/talk or sports broadcasting. By 2001, most of the former AM stereo broadcasters were no longer stereo or had left the AM band entirely. [...]
Globally, interest in and use of AM stereo has been declining steadily since the 1990s, as many music stations have continued to move to the FM band. As a result, the vast majority of AM stations broadcast news/talk or sports/sports talk formats. Many of the stations that initially implemented AM stereo are clear-channel 50,000-watt stations, and are more concerned with listening range than stereo sound (although there is no proof that use of AM stereo affects listening range). As a result, these stations still have the necessary equipment to broadcast in stereo, but it is left unused (or converted to HD Radio). Also, many former AM stereo stations were bought up by broadcasting conglomerates, which generally discourage AM stereo broadcasting. In the United States, most stations currently using AM stereo are small, independently owned and broadcast a variety of music format. (wikipedia) (emph. mine)
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As for the theme, yeah, it's fine. SET A NEW RECORD felt awkward, since you'd never describe a DJ as doing that, but the other answers are pretty on-the-money. The revealer placement is weird, but it was also lucky for me, since (solving Downs-only) I rarely get to see an actual revealer on Monday (since most theme answers and revealers run Across). I hit DJS before I had *any* of the themers, and it ended up helping a lot with parsing those long Acrosses. The hardest, by far, was SET A NEW RECORD (again, awkward), but I got there eventually, despite AM STEREO's best efforts to thwart me. All the Downs-only trouble for me came up top, first and foremost with AM STEREO, but also with AFRESH (6D: From the beginning), SAME-DAY (9D: Speedy delivery option), and "BE COOL" (10D: "Don't do that dorky thing you do"). Had to infer ASPS from -SP- before I could get AFRESH or SAME-DAY. AFRESH was tough because EGOS looked like it could've been EGOT. Basically, I really, desperately needed to get TURN THE TABLES locked in before I could work my way back up into all those Downs I'd missed initially. Between TURN THE TABLES and ASPS, I was able to put the squeeze on the recalcitrant Downs, and finish off my Downs-only experience. Can't beat Downs-only for putting some teeth into the Monday solve. Even when the puzzle is less than pleasing, the Downs-only solve is usually still satisfying.
Anything else? Well, the fill is really not that great overall (OLDE IBAR AAS and on and on), but let's not dwell on that. The theme is cute, 3/4 of the themers are good, and AM STEREO is a blight (again, please read the "Word of the Day" entry, above, to see how ... OLDE and SEMI-obsolete it is). OK, cool, see you next time.
Curious for time to solve from others. I am typically a 6 min Monday, this was 11.
ReplyDeleteTypically 9, today 16!
DeleteAverage 8, finished in 7.
DeleteTypically 7 or 8, today 10:49
DeleteI was maybe slightly under my average.
DeleteIt was 6:48 for me, which was quite a bit higher than my Monday average.
DeleteMedium. Solid and pretty smooth with a clever reveal that I didn’t see coming, liked it. AM STEREO and AFRESH were stumbling blocks for me too.
ReplyDeleteCroce Solvers - Croce’s Freestyle #864 was quite a bit harder than #862 for me. I worked on it off and on for a couple of days. The difficulty was more clueing driven than WOE driven. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteFor 61A (What a toddler in a snowsuit might be pulling), my Trumpian, EONIAN father-in-law immediately tried to cram in "election heist." If you think about it, it's no more absurdian than any of the other inanian stuff they allege. But, of course, this right wing schtick has been with us since at least Roman times. I mean, I think we all know who's behind the AMMO, ammas, ammat conjugation.
I noticed two difficulties when I tried to put LAPDANCERS into the (54D) revealer:
1. It didn't fit
2. The clue contained "dance".
Other than that, it fit each of the themers to a T.
Actually, I quite liked that a 3 letter revealer was pretty good for each of the themers. It was a pretty easy downs only solve because the themers were all solid enough phrases that they could be figured out from a modest number of crosses. Anyway, thanks for the dance, Sean Ziebarth.
"EGADS...I SET THE TABLES for MISS TAMS and there was a FLEA on the LASAGNA!!!!" "I'll have to start AFRESH SINCE I DON"T EVEN want to ADMIT that I didn't make the LASAGNA on THE SAME OLDE DAY as I made the PEAR POSEAS....!!!!" "I feel like the SKA is falling" sighed SEGA.
ReplyDeleteSEGA and AMMO were a DUO. They had quite a STORY and I OTTO tell it!
You see, they were DJS at the I BAR. They'd play a RECORD for the STOICS who liked KARMA BEAT set on this COOL AM STEREO on the TURN TABLES at the BAR. AMMO was the GAMER with the STAMINA and SEGA was the PERT DEAL. She like to POSE AS a cook and make FRESH LASAGNA with this ERIE sauce called ASPS that EVEN LEO, the NEW NAME in town, was upBEAT about. AMMO just LAYS about like a SLOW NEEDLE on a RECORD.
MISS TAMS VENTED that both were SLOW on the STAMINA SLED. She would ADMIT that sometimes she was DELT a raw DEAL, but EGAD....SEGA SET A RECORD for the best SAME DAY LASAGNA that you DON'T want to MISS. You had to TRY it! The hell with the FLEA!
MISS TAMS sent an EMAIL to AAS wanting to AIR her concern. Either this DUO, she said, should MOVE THE NEEDLE ON THE RECORD and be DJS, OR set tables WITH ERIE ASPS sauce on THE LASAGNA....
The TEA room was available....SEGA and AMMO decided to ADMIT that they had a good deal....This was KARMA at its best. No EGOS were hurt...the BAGS under their eyes were EVEN gone. SEGA would BEAT some eggs that were FRESH LAYS....she'd maKe her LASAGNA! And for dessert there was a PEAR TOTEM. NANA MIA...it was delicious!
Even AMMO NODDED at this MOVE.
So this was a OLDE STORY that NEEDLED to be told. I'll ADMIT it's OVER and we must MOVE ON. I mean, EGAD...you TRY it!
PSST....The end.
GILL I. 12:41 AM
DeleteThere you are. Phew.
Yes Rex you are quite right about AM STEREO... I tried AM STREAM at first. When I finally realized what it was, it sounded only vaguely familiar from some time in the past. But as for the theme, I thought it was quite good for a Monday! I dunno if many modern DJs actually spin vinyl records on turntables, but I hope so.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, also solving down clues only I thought I was in big trouble after the first pass... so many complete blanks that I couldn't guess what any of the theme answers were. But like you, that weird little revealer helped a lot. (And so lucky it was a down and not an across!) I mean: 3 letter plural dance club worker could only be DJS! Then quickly seeing RECORD, TABLES, and NEEDLE. Very satisfying in that it was so tough at first but I finished clean without looking at any across clues (until after).
[Spelling Bee: Sun 0, a relief after two -1s in a row. Including Sat, where I missed a 7 letter string which evidently Sam thinks is a word but it is not, damn you Sam, and here's the proof.]
First I thought it was AM station, but that didn’t fit. There is no AM stereo only FM. And Afresh too who says that?
DeleteNot rare at all. I have heard it
DeleteI’ve heard of AM stereo, but never actually heard AM stereo. All AM I’ve ever heard was mono. It’s a pretty niche answer in my opinion and also irritated the hell out of me.
DeleteI knew Rex was going to comment on AM Stereo - and there it is. I admit (before reading Rex's note) that I planned to write "there is no such thing" - but then Rex, more elegantly, came to the same conclusion. The rest of it - the DJ clues - were pleasant and fun.
ReplyDeleteMy five favorite original clues from last week
ReplyDelete(in order of appearance):
1. Evidence that one is going into labor? (5)(4)
2. One getting into a cab, perhaps (4)(6)
3. Work in progress? (6)(4)
4. Month that goes by fast? (7)
5. Walk in place? (5)(8)
UNION CARD
WINE TASTER
CAREER PATH
RAMADAN
FRONT ENTRANCE
Two days in a row for TOTEM. IBAR/TBAR was a kealoa, and I'm with @Rex on AM STEREO--but the crosses were fair, although I think this played more like a Tuesday or Wednesday than a Monday.
ReplyDelete@okanager. Hamachi, unfortunately, is in the Oxford English Dictionary. I missed it too😥
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the straightforward theme and had the same reaction as many of us to the AM STEREO nonsense, but just chalked it up to this being the NYT so there is almost always going to be an unforced error or some other type of gibberish. Rex’s “If they aren't familiar or known . . .” comment probably would have been relevant to about a dozen of the answers in yesterday’s grid - but that’s just not the way the Times operates. However, Rex’s criticism is still valid - just because you can doesn’t mean that you should. So take your LAGOMORPHS and get off my lawn.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry, but nothing can ever justify AM STEREO in a puzzle. [Written before I read Rex]
ReplyDeleteAbout 90 seconds over normal time. Not sure why, didn’t play hard … I guess the long theme entries slowed me down as I couldn’t get them on a first pass.
ReplyDeleteAM stereo didn’t bother me after reading the explanation - learned something.
Croce Freestyle 864 easy (for a Croce). 18D and 37D were both WoEs, but I felt good about the crosses.
ReplyDeleteGood theme, even if I didn't realize it until I had finished.
ReplyDeleteAMSTEREO didn't bother me...it's old, but so is black-and-white TV. But that would be a valid answer to "Something your grandparents might have watched."
Cute idea - smooth fill. Liked both TURN THE TABLES and MOVE THE NEEDLE. The Alpine in my 2016 Dodge Ram can receive AM STEREO.
ReplyDeleteNice to see @Gill back and in fine form.
Pleasant Monday morning solve.
A Dying CUBS Fan’s Last Request
Oh, good eyes, Sean Ziebarth, to find these four phrases that normally are used outside of a DJ context, yet describe what DJs do. Very clever theme. Bravo on that!
ReplyDeleteThere were some lovely serendipities today:
• A final-letter schwa-de-vivre parade of KARMA, NANA, ERA, SEGA, STAMINA, and LASAGNA.
• The abutting neighbors TOTEM POL.
• The PuzzPair© of BOLT and FLEA.
• And how nerdy is my brain? It tapped me on the shoulder to point out the anagrammed AGED (from EGAD) crossing a backward AGES. I believe I need to get out more.
To those following my feeble attempts to guess the revealer – after leaving it blank and not reading its clue, a skill I’m so weak at – I actually did it today! I did it! Dear reader, don’t tell me it was obvious. Don’t tell me it was easy. Please just let me float on my cloud.
So, Sean, you got me spinning in many directions, all of them good, in your spinning-themed puzzle. Thank, you sir!
I spent the first half of my professional life in radio, and haven’t heard or thought of AM STEREO in a long time, and as the Wikipedia entry notes it was most not really “for news and talk formats,” so that was a struggle.
ReplyDeleteaverage - 6:11
ReplyDeletetoday - 5:51
fastest - 4:07
had a few fumbles on the keyboard time could have been a few seconds faster
agree about am stereo. thought to myself. am isn't/wasn't stereo that's why fm exists. right?
AM STEREO didn't bother me as an answer, but the clue did. It's not a band. AM is a band (from WOD entry, emphasis mine: "for radio broadcasting stereo audio ***in*** the AM band"), and as an earlier Anon noted, it's not so much for talk/news, who gives a FLEA if their news is in stereo, but I probably want my music that way.
ReplyDeleteMy comment exactly.
DeleteWe solvers shouldn't have to edit the puzzles. I believe that's what WS et al are actually paid to do.
Similar to Rex, since I was doing it Downs-only, the revealer really did help with the themers! I still had to look at some Across answers at some point, but that was mainly because of the infuriating AM STEREO, which I hated even more than Rex did. Having taught media technology and policy during those years, AM STEREO was the poster child for institutional effects of deregulation on technological development. It’s complicated. I’m very familiar with the history of it but have most people ever even heard of it? Doesn’t belong in a Monday! Pretty nice puzzle, otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThx, Sean; may the KARMA be with you! 😊
ReplyDeleteRelatively easy downs-only.
Last fill was 'SAME DAY'.
Thx @Rex, for the AM STEREO info; learned something there. :)
Fun trip down south! :)
Thx @jae; on it! :)
___
Wahoo! Finally sussed out the one clue/answer sticking in my craw and nailed Stanley Newman's Sat. Stumper (8x NYT Sat). Balton & Stewart's NYT acrostic was somewhat challenging, but doable; and, with an very meaningful quote, to boot. 🙏
On to Croce's 864 🤞, with Anna Shechtman's New Yorker Mon. on tap for tm.
___
Peace 🕊 🇺🇦 ~ Compassion ~ Tolerance ~ Kindness ~ Freudenfreude & a DAP to all 👊 🙏
Rex! Longtime trader first-time poster. I learned (from you) about Downs Only just yesterday, and tried it this morning. What a gas! Thanks for helping make Mondays more fun and for making me less weird about doing this every day.
ReplyDeleteSeemed very Monday-ish to me. Agree with AMSTEREO complaints, though not sure it needed quite the beatdown it got this AM. Also don't really think of BECOOL as an imperative to not be uncool, use it more like "chill" than an antidote to being dorky. EGAD also felt a little off (and generated my only do-over, having gone with "ohmy"). Thought TEABAGS was fun, looking for spirals there. All in all thought it was a fun Monday.
ReplyDeleteHaving graduated sometime in the last couple years to solving the puzzle every day of the week, I’ve lately been attempting to solve Mondays downs-only, like Rex. Have yet to finish one based entirely on down clues, and this one kicked my ass. Fun new challenge that I’m still finding…very challenging.
ReplyDeleteHey All !
ReplyDeleteIf I'm reading Rex correctly, he didn't like AM STEREO. Right?
🤣🤣
That silliness aside, thought the puz good for Monday. The extra Blockers come in the form of bookends, if you will, for the 13's. Themers that are 13's are tough to get in. You either end up like the grid here, or you end up with two Blockers together at the beginning or end of the Themer, with a section of three Blockers either directly above or below it. Either way you end up with 5 Blockers.
DJS that play the nightclubs here in Las Vegas get paid ridiculous amounts of money. Last I heard, the "big name DJS" were making about $250,000 a night. Ridiculous, no? Or am I in the wrong profession?
Enjoy your fast approached Monday. These weekends are ridiculously short.
One F
RooMonster
DarrinV
I loved the theme but “AM STEREO”? I never heard of it and I am old enough to have listened to it. It’s not unusual to learn something new in a puzzle so I’ll just chalk it up to the crossword experience.
ReplyDeleteCaught the theme early so DJS was not an aha!, but I thought all the themers were solid enough.
ReplyDeleteGot done with this one and went back looking for proper nouns, as they seemed to be in short supply, yay, and only found SEGA. so nice work there.
I usually make a note to myself about answers that are new to me or remind me of something. Today's was AMSTEREO? Seemed off, as others have mentioned and then came The Rant when I read OFL's take. Yike. Get a grip.
OK Monday by me, SZ. Seemed Zippy enough and I learned a new OFL trigger answer. Thanks for all the fun.
Shouldn’t it just be SETARECORD? Has any athlete ever set an OLDE record?
ReplyDeleteTOTEM POL was cute.
Simpsons’ Bus Driver ADMITs to fellow AAs: “I am OTTO, I like to get blotto”
Sex Addict boasts “I DON’T MISS A BEAT. SET A NEW SAMEDAY RECORD!” (Favorite subgenre NANA TEABAGS)
Ok, this is getting too JADEd…
Cute theme (Sean’s, not mine!)
As Anonymous (7:59) points out, the worst problem with AM STEREO is that the clue is wrong; it was not used for "news and talk formats." I didn't mind the obsolescence, but that was annoying.
ReplyDeleteDoes LASAGNA/LASAGNe count as a kealoa?
The theme was fine. I could see it was about phonographs after the TURN...TABLES, but needed the revealer to see that the whole answers were involved. DON'T skip A BEAT would have been better--needles do sometimes skip while playing -- but maybe the crosses ruled it out.
I just noticed the DEAL/DELT crossing. I kind of like that.
@Anonymous (8:34 AM)
ReplyDeleteWelcome aboard! 😊
___
Peace 🕊 🇺🇦 ~ Compassion ~ Tolerance ~ Kindness ~ Freudenfreude & a DAP to all 👊 🙏
Gee, and I thought gadgets were getting exponentially better by the day.
ReplyDeleteLet me tell you about the compact Harman Kardon STEREO that I bought 2nd-hand from a neighbor in my building back in the early 1970s. (He was upgrading to a major apartment-wide system.) Since it bought 2nd-hand, I figure it was vintage 1960s. Maybe even 1950s. It lasted me about 30 years, and here are all the things it could do completely by its lonesome -- without the help of a DJ.
It could SET A NEW RECORD. You stacked them in maybe 5 at a time).
It could MOVE THE NEEDLE. You wouldn't want ME moving the needle, now, would you? I'd scratch the record.
It had its own TURNTABLE. I mean you wouldn't expect ME to run around the table that was holding the gadget myself -- at a quick pace of 78 RPMs a minute? Even 33 RPMs a minute would be taxing. Although one could save a bundle on a gym membership.
I'm just riffing, Sean. This was a lively and entertaining puzzle that I enjoyed.
Hi Nancy - no way NYT will let my posts appear - is there any way I could beg you to be in touch with Barry A and ask him to simply lay off, lay back? The comment he so rudely replied to me on this morning was submitted before any comments were on the site at all. Yet his reply is full of his customary rudeness. Nothing I ever post appears in a timely way, any direct reply will be stifled. I think you know how to contact him and just let him know that he doesn’t HAVE to make people hate him…
Delete(By contrast, I have never met another poster better than you at the gratifying “hated this…that’s obscure…terrible crossing…Loved It!” post.)
SETANEWRECORD is a pet peeve among professional copy editors. It's not possible to set an old record, so any editor who's paying attention will delete the 'new' and turn the phrase into, 'set a record.' The editor will then turn to colleagues and mock the sloppiness of the writer.
ReplyDeleteClever theme! After RECORD and TABLES, I was able to guess MOVE THE NEEDLE but needed lots of crosses for DON'T MISS A BEAT. I hadn't expected to encounter the DJS down there in the corner. A nice Monday, having the complete phrases as the theme answers (rather than, say, the first or the last words all be somehow related). I liked the kitchen pair LASAGNA and TEA BAGS and the parallel VENTED and BE COOL.
ReplyDeleteDo-over: erst before OLDE. Too ignorant to be bothered: AM STEREO.
@Spelling Bee doers - A request: if referring to a previous day's puzzle, could you please give a spoiler alert if you mention one of the answer words? I often use the new(ish) feature to go back to Bees I haven't finished. Thank you!
@GILL I. - We have some PEARs....think I'll go make some POSEAS. Thanks for the Monday laughs.
Well, there's the theme you needed to end the weeping from yesterday... oompa-oompa-oompa Macarena. Go to a wedding and watch old white people dancing to a DJ playing the schlock they play and you'll wish you were doing a themeless Sunday.
ReplyDeleteAMSTEREO is technically a thing, but just barely. The AM band out here in the west is mono (I think), not stereo, and it only runs sports, Jesus, and right-wing nut jobs with three drunken old men as their audience. When you drive through the vast wastelands of nothingness it used to be comical to turn on, but now I put on an audiobook.
Uniclues:
1 2016-2020.
2 Italian delight with red peppers in the sauce.
3 Hedgehog in a hurry.
1 EGAD ERA (~)
2 PERT LASAGNA (~)
3 SAMEDAY SEGA
My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: The guy with a cable wire running out of his basement window, across his side lawn, through the rose bushes, over the leaning wooden fence, and down into his neighbor's basement. SHARES AN ACCOUNT BEAST.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank you Rex! I came here hoping for at least a small rant about AMSTEREO and I got the Full Monty. Well justified and well appreciated, by me. Based upon the clue, it’s my theory that the constructor mistakenly believes that “stereo” and “radio” are interchangeable. And Shortz doesn’t know any better. C’mon, guys.
ReplyDeleteAgree with @kitshef that the Croce 864 was eaasy-sih for a Croce. Easiest for me was 25 D.
ReplyDeleteToday's NYer was more of a challenge, at least for me.
ReplyDeleteFrom OED: new, adj. & n. Not previously existing; now made or brought into existence for the first time.
So a RECORD that didn't exist before and is now made or brought into existence for the first time woud seem to be a NEW RECORD
Cute puzzle. I didn't know AM was in stereo - I thought it was all news??? In fact, does AM radio still exist?
ReplyDeleteSET A NEW RECORD is fine, it acknowledges that there *was* a previous record quantified for the thing. Especially apropos when a famously long-held record gets broken, such as Hank Aaron's surpassing Babe Ruth's home run total.
ReplyDeleteYes, a record is, by definition, new. Therefore, it isn't necessary to specify that something is a 'new' record. Of course, it is. 'New' is redundant.
ReplyDeleteLiked the theme. Figured it out right after the first two themers were splatzed into place.
ReplyDeleteAMSTEREO ain't awful. FMSTEREO would be a tad better, but then U might have to tear up a lotta the puzgrid, to shoehorn it in.
M&A suggested alternative approach:
ACROSS.
1. One way to get messages. [If 33-A were TIP or somesuch]
14. ___ Carta
17. Wooden or metal framework
DOWN.
1. CPR pro
2. Where Trump and Musk oughta flee to
3. Fever and chills
4. Blessed with two speakers at the dance club?
staff weeject pick: DJS. A runt word gets the theme revealer honors.
fave moo-cow eazy-E MonPuz clue: {Bug on a pug} = FLEA.
other faves: LASAGNA. STAMINA. BECOOL. SOMEDAY.
Thanx for the spin, Mr. Ziebarth dude.
Masked & Anonymo2Us
**gruntz**
OH REX, YOU COULD HAVE SAVED YOURSELF (and us, your readers) SO MCH ANGUISH IF YOU JUST DID THE PUZZLE AS A CROSSWORD - as it is intended.
ReplyDeleteWhen I fill ed stereo after am I just shrugged. I felt no use to rant.
I agree with @Nancy that this was a cute and lively puzzle, and like @Gary Jugert …PSST…I am glad to see @GILL I back! Yeah, I guess I also didn’t see how AMSTEREO is such a blight on the grid. Like many things in xwords, I didn’t know it existed, but the crosses were fine. My presumption (this doesn’t mean it’s correct) is that it was designed to take away the “tinny” sound quality of AM, but then they realized nobody cared about the sound quality when they are listening to sports and people who rant about things. Like @Gary Jugert, these days I ALWAYS have an audiobook going for my solo short, medium, and long car trips.
ReplyDelete@pbc, of course SETTHENEWRECORD is redundant, but journalism allows you to dispassionately set out a story in a grammatical manner. People might have excitedly exclaimed, “Hank Aaron just SETTHENEW(home run)Record”! They are less likely to exclaim, “Hank Aaron set the home run record held previously by Babe Ruth”!
Back in the day I longed to hear Rush Limbaugh's Stentorian voice in STEREO so I went out and bought the best quadrature amplitude modulation multiplexing system I could find. Still got that QAM beast and although Rush is no longer with us, there are still lots of Gasconian talk show hosts out there to keep me on the right political path and they do it in AM STEREO.
ReplyDeleteI think @Gill I. SET A NEW RECORD in taking a Monday puzzle grid and showing us how to BE COOL and give it A FRESH SAME DAY STORY. What STAMINA! You DON'T MISS A BEAT, dama ingeniosa!
When Babe Ruth hit 54 home runs in 1920, he was said to have set a NEW record, because the OLD record of 29 (in 1919) was also his personal record. Likewise, he hit 59 homers in 1921 and 60 in 1927, which were "new highs" for him and for major-league baseball. "New highs" doesn't sound redundant to me. If the stock market reaches a level it never reached before, we call it a 'new high."
ReplyDeleteIf "new record" is a redundancy, then shouldn't "new high" and "new level" also be called redundant?
Welcome back @GILL. you were missed.
ReplyDelete@Bob Mills.
Yes, there are two sides to the NEW record redundancy argument, but comparing "record" to high or level doesn't work for me.
@Joe Dipinto No one was in doubt about whether a home run record existed before Hank Aaron, so I don't see why 'new' is especially justified in that instance. More generally, any time you say someone set a record, you're saying there was a prior record.
ReplyDelete@Beezer I'm not saying that people don't make grammatical mistakes or commit redundancies. Of course they do, and they do so more often when speaking than when writing. I'm merely saying that, for professional editors, 'new record' is a pet peeve that belongs in what we used to call the Department of Redundancy Department.
About new record as a redundancy.
DeleteIf you treat language like a math equation, then new record is wrong.
BUT language is not a math equation. Especially with spoken language, so called redundant words are often added for emphasis or because they are part of set expressions that develop over time.
Set a new record is perfectly valid spoken English. Since copy editors exist to remove superfluous words in text and newspapers, I can understand
the aversion to such set expressions. But language is a lot more complicated that. Just labeling it redundant doesn’t make it so.
@Bob Mills Funny you should ask about 'new highs.'
ReplyDelete'New level' is clearly not redundant, because 'level' doesn't say anything about whether some number is high, low or in between. "New high' is often redundant, but it depends on how the term is used. At the WSJ, where I used to ply my trade, the term' high' was used in all kinds of ways, mostly because stock indices could have intraday highs, weekly highs, quarterly highs and so on. If some stock or index was setting a series of highs, a reference to a 'new high' for that session or week or whatever made sense. If 'high' referred to a record since time immemorial, then 'new' was redundant as a modifier and was deleted.
In that setting, a 'new high,' like a 'new record,' would be mocked among editors as a 'new, all-time, record high peak.'
@dgd-
ReplyDeleteWas just reading through yesterday's late comments and I appreciate the apology but know what? I'm still not Pedro. Good try though.
I did it again
DeleteSeriously, not deliberately
From the time I looked at your name till I wrote the post, the wires crossed in my brain again.
Paul, Pablo, Paolo, Pavel
Alphabetical
Pablo, Paola, Paul, Pavel
That may help.
Anyway, always find your comments interesting.
@pbc (2:07)-- It sounds as though there was a lot of rollicking good humor among the editors at the WSJ. What fun.
ReplyDelete@Anon 12:22 -- Sorry for the delay but I just saw your query. I have absolutely no idea how to contact Barry A. on Wordplay -- I don't know how to contact anyone on Wordplay. Which is one of the main reasons why that blog comes in a very distant second to this one.
ReplyDeleteThe other reason is a scrolling system designed by the Marquis de Sade. I can't even find my own name an hour after I've posted, much less anyone else's. I can't use the F3 system, (which someone had to tell me about in the first place), because there's another Nancy who posts AFTER I do, which means she's always somewhere ABOVE me in the comments (nutty system, right???) so the F3 function takes me to her.
But wait -- it's even worse than that. If the column that day has the word "pregNANCY" in it, I'm sunk. If Nancy Pelosi...or Nancy Reagan...or Nancy Sinatra (all have appeared in the column at one time or other) is in the column, I'm sunk. The F3 function is useless.
So if I can't find myself, I certainly can't find Barry for you. Not that I'd especially want to. He's a know-it-all about absolutely everything, and it can be very annoying, but he's not a troll -- and there is a difference. I've lashed out at two trolls on that blog, but I try to stay on Barry's good side. I'm not always so disciplined at this, but in his case I refuse to take t
Not bad. But Rex is right about AMSTEREO. It’s a blemish on an otherwise solid grid.
ReplyDeleteNot being a radio aficionado, I wasn't bothered by 4d. Did it by crosses--had AMSTE___ and suddenly was thirsty for a beer--but wasn't unduly irritated.
ReplyDeleteGood, clever puzzle with a surprising little revealer that put it all together. Would have been really elegant in the center across spot, but we can't have everything.
Nice, roomy grid, and few fill uglies. Birdie.
Wordle birdie.
Agree that AMSTEREO is just dumb.
ReplyDeleteBut the rest was enjoyable.
Diana, LIW
SAME OLDE STORY
ReplyDeleteLEO SETANEWRECORD of fable,
he DON'TMISSABEAT SINCE he's able
TOO BECOOL every DAY
with AMISS that he LAYS
EVEN when they TURN OVER THETABLES.
--- NANA JADE OTTO
Seems to me that I recall AMSTEREO turned into a big nothing burger.
ReplyDeleteHow do you move poles. TOTEM.
Wordle par.