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Relative difficulty: Challenging (for me ... some names were ???? and the cluing was horrendous all around)
Theme answers:
- LONG FOR NIA (17A: Want an actress from "Soul Food")
- PINE FOR CHRIS (23A: Want an actor from "Wonder Woman")
- JONES FOR JANUARY (36A: Want an actress from "Mad Men")
- YEN FOR DONNIE (44A: Want an actor from "Rogue One")
- HOPE FOR BOB (55A: Want an actor from "Here Come the Girls")
Donnie Yen Ji-dan[2] (Chinese: 甄子丹; born 27 July 1963) is a Hong Kong actor, martial artist, film director, producer, action choreographer, stuntman and multiple-time world wushu tournament champion ("Wushu" is the Chinese term for "martial arts" (武 "Wu" = military or martial, 術 "Shu" = art).) (wikipedia)
• • •
Had RAISE and thought ??? Then it ended up being ... A BET??! Just ... RAISE A BET!?!?! ugh that is about as real and solid as PARK A CAR and anyway you've already got your stupid POKER clue over there in the center, stop bludgeoning me. OLA is bad, CrapOLA is so much worse (though it does describe this puzzle). All the tricky or "?" clues were torture, and not the good kind of torture where you finally get it and think "ah, good one." The bad kind, where you have to struggle and are ultimately left only with a disappointed "oh" or a "what?!" [The buck stops here] is a horrible clue, and I mean horrible clue, for BANK. Not even a "?" on that stupid thing??? It's not literally true! What am I, an 8-year old in 1964 taking a single dollar bill to the BANK? Ugh. I actually had to run the alphabet at 39A: They're often lit (_OTS) because oh we're still making fun of alcoholics with cutesy clues, and also, until I got JANUARY there was no way on god's green that I was going to think PJS was a [Nightcap go-with, in brief]. Never. If you'd added [, maybe], then ... maybe. But otherwise, those aren't sufficiently related to qualify for "go-with." You went to [Danish coins] for ØRE, why why why? Foreign coinage and diacritically marked letters (like Ø and Ñ) are things you steer away from, not smash into. The EPA no longer seeks clean skies, or clean anything, please stop pretending. Its current leader is *literally* opposed to limits on greenhouse gas emissions. Stop. Pretending. BYA BYA BYA! I mean, bye.
Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld
P.S. an ARIA = "bars" (musical passages) for a "single" (i.e. soloist), hence (16A: Single's bars?).
[Follow Rex Parker on Twitter and Facebook]
Liked it more than Rex, but, yeah, PPP based themes are not my favorite.
ReplyDeleteThanks for calling out the clue for EPA as being inaccurate!
ReplyDelete@rex -- I liked the clue for PJS [Nightcap go-with, in brief]. The image of someone wearing a nightcap and pj's came right to me. And the clue is a lovely misdirect...
ReplyDeleteCan't fault a puzzle with a fun theme based on a great idea, with overcome-able resistance (for me, in the south), and certainly can't fault a puzzle with high IDEALS. And oh, we had I AM SO / OHIO / HAS A GO / ARGO / ONO / FIDO. All in all, a most enjoyable FOR JANUARY outing, and thank you, Jeremy!
Cool theme: "Four people Joaquin couldn’t pick out of a police line-up. And Bob Hope."
ReplyDeleteHad an experience 100% like Rex's, from the individual tortured and inaccurate clues to the macro problems (don't know Hollywood). I didn't understand what was clever about the long answers even when I got them, not understanding the verbs were also last names until I got to Bob Hope, the only one of those people I'd ever heard of -- and certainly hadn't heard of Here Come the Girls.
ReplyDeleteWorst puzzle in ages. Crapola is right.
ReplyDeleteI always love coming here to see how it felt for other folks when I slog through a puzzle. Thanks for the affirmation (and some Lana) to start the day. This one was a stinker.
ReplyDeleteVery doable in spite of tough themers, except for the FORs. I’m never happy seeing a bunch of names, but BOB HOPE bailed me out in the SE.
ReplyDeleteI’ll remember this puzzle for a long time – in the same way I remember my last bout of food poisoning.
ReplyDeleteSaturday-tough, which is normally welcome, but all the difficulty was due to ‘famous’ people of whom I have never heard, such as ALI Wong, JANUARY JONES, DONNIE YEN, and ERICA Hill. Then to cross ALI with NIA, whom I know solely from crosswords, and to cross DONNIE with that terrible clue for DEPTS, that is insane.
Crap OLA is right. Wish I could point to at least a few positives, but there are none. On the whole, I think the food poisoning was preferable.
Not going to be a favorite, but not as annoyed as Rex. Imagine I'd like it more if it wasn't so out of my wheelhouse. LABOR clue is clever.
ReplyDeleteI tell you what – it took a while to understand the trick since I didn’t really know the names NIA LONG, CHRIS PINE, or DONNIE YEN. My famous tv people knowledge is pretty much limited to Bravolebrities. When I finally got JONES FOR JANUARY and HOPE FOR BOB, the aha moment was satisfying. I’ve googled NIA, CHRIS, and DONNIE, so I’m good to go now for future reference.
ReplyDeleteI always try to get it without looking at the reveal, so when in my periphery vision I see a long-ish clue, I avoid it. This morning I just assumed 54A was the reveal. I had the O in place, and since I had accidentally seen the “home” of the clue, I wrote in OSLO wondering What the heck…? Fun to learn that all those space people hail from OHIO. Don’t people in Ohio claim that it’s their state that’s also “First in Flight” because Wilbur and Orville are from there?
@Lewis - the clue for PJS brought me up short. I always think of a nightcap as what you ask your date if he wants as you stand outside your building – ya know – code for wanna come in wink wink? In a ‘40s movie. You do the requisite Let me slip into something more comfortable and come back wearing a beautiful nightgown/robe ensemble trimmed with subtle feathers and stuff. PJS don’t go with a nightcap. PJS go with a mug of warm milk and maybe a cookie. Standing over the sink. So the crumbs don’t fall on your watermelon-size rabbit slippers.
I kept going back and enjoying the word “creepazoid” in the LEER clue. Now there’s a suffix for ya. I had always just heard sleazoid and freakazoid, but I could easily imagine stuff like dweebazoid and jerkazoid, too. It seems that the word that is appended has to be an informal word for someone icky. But it has to be one syllable, so jackassazoid won’t be happening soon. (Hard, though, not to think of a certain tweet-happy twittazoid in chief.)
I love tinkering with famous people’s names. Pretty tight theme with verbs all meaning “want,” all matching the third person plural (or first or second person?) of the clue. So my avatar absolutely does not work because of the S.
Good one, Jeremy.
(FWIW, the registration is open for the ACPT. If you’re planning to go, you should at the very least reserve a room because the rooms sell out. It is Such a fun weekend, and you’ll see once you go that the thing stopping you (the fear of competing) is a non-issue. I’m always in the lower half and could not care less. I’m too busy stargazing at all the constructors and yip-yapping with the gang. Let me know ahead of time that you’re coming, and I’ll look out for you and introduce you to our gang. It’s a hoot.)
Welcome back, Muse. Been missing you 'round these parts. I hope all is well and thanks, as ever, for the lols.
DeleteI can’t remember ever having beaten Rex’s posted time. I think I probably would have today but he didn’t post it. Sad. For me.
ReplyDeleteWednesday’s are my sweet spot and this one was oh so sweet. Completed in two parts, last thing at night before the eyes fell in on themselves and then first thing in the morning while the kettle boiled for tea. It took a tad over my average at about 42 minutes and I enjoyed every one of them.
ReplyDeleteThe theme is just brilliant, find actors and actresses whose surnames are also synonyms for WANT and there you have it. I spotted it with JONES FOR JANUARY although I had YEN FOR DONNIE in first but had never heard of him so didn’t know what was going on.
The clueing was tough and vague all over and I can understand why someone could get a slow time (like me) and then be angry at the crossword. I wasn’t, I loved it.
10/10 for this great Wednesday, keep them coming and get my game up.
David in Brevard (NC)
Sometimes when we're watching Jeopardy! and I'm getting a lot of right answers someone will say hey,, you should do this, and I say, no, they'll have a category involving pop culture since, oh, 1990, and that will be the end of it. I'll go over and sit with @Joaquin and reminisce about Bob Hope.
ReplyDeleteThe only fun I had with this one was trying to make LONGFORNIA into some kind of new state and thinking wacky state names might be a fun theme, probably more fun than the one we got.
Speaking of states, LMS (welcome back, how ya been?) mentioned the "first in flight" guys,, which is North Carolina, Kitty Hawk and all that.
As Groucho said leaving the party, I had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it.
They made their flight in NC, but they were from Ohio.
DeleteUsually I am nowhere near as negative as Rex but today. . . Could hardly agree more. BTW, “Mad Men” = TV show so the clues are not even internally consistent in media type.
ReplyDeleteTank top and Once a year were good clues; rest was atrocious.
ReplyDeleteI think the nightcap is this kind, not the drink: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcap_(garment)
ReplyDeleteMissed opportunity to post Ernie K. Doe's "Here Come the Girls."
Like Rex, I totally misread the nightcap clue. Good one.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great example of why this blog is such an outstanding hate read. Only Rex could work himself into such an infantile tantrum, raging with grawlix profanity that too many of the themers are from big blockbuster sequel movies. Soul Food? Mad Men? A Bob Hope movie?
ReplyDeleteAfter I saw what the trick was I unashamedly used IMDB to find the actor that would fit the theme. It was that or give up since I knew none of the movies. I know Bob Hope of course but not the movie. Same with Chris Pine.
ReplyDeleteOh, and then there was "mixer option". I had CO__. Hmmmm? COKE or COLA? Then I got Park (30A) so it had to be COKE. Except Park was actually POOL, so COLA after all. Because who knows Sp. wine or Danish coins? (OK, I know some of you do.) Ditto to everyone's negativity on this puzzle.
Surprised to see the response here, this was almost a best time for us, very quick solve. On the other hand we area long time kung fu film fans so YENFORDONNIE was almost instantaneous. Only misleads were around TURRET for GASCAP and AMNOT for IAMSO, but quickly cleaned up once it was clear GIF was the down.
ReplyDeleteUS? WE?
Delete@Declan. Thank you for "grawlix". I had no idea there was a name for $?&#@$&!
DeleteIf you're wearing a nightcap you're not wearing PJ's. You're wearing an ankle length night shirt and holding a candle on a plate known as a chamber stick.
ReplyDeleteJust a slogfest. I was an “ofer” on the names in the themers. I discerned the gimmick so the FORs were gimmies and I attempted to parse out the first names - JANUARY was brutal in this context, and the first letter in DONNIE could have been about a half dozen things (B, R, J, L . . . ).
ReplyDeleteIncluding ULTRON in a Wednesday puzzle that is already a genre-specific trivia quiz is simply abysmal.
Glad that LMS is back as I always enjoy her take on things. However, I’m all-in with OFL today - the theme sunk this one pretty much from the get go.
Yearn for Maleska.
ReplyDeleteAnyone else sick and tired of LEER and SOTS and other offensive crosswordese. It isn't that hard to come up with new stuff guys. And give poor ONO a break.
Never heard of these people, except Bob Hope, who was a true outlier, and never watched Mad Men so this was a bear. I finally gave up out of boredom.
OK, so there are some less than sparkling spots (not a fan of pejorative terms for folks struggling with addiction) but it is Wednesday. And (not to repeat a theme of mine from earlier) just because the puzzle is not squarely in ones wheelhouse does not make it “terrible.”
ReplyDeleteI found the word play fun for LIMB, GAS CAP, ARIA (fell into the ‘solo’ trap initially), and PJS, for example. The theme was gettable if not superb, and the fill more in than out of my aging and sometimes decidedly leaky wheelhouse. Sped through except for the SE largely due to: DONNIE, ULTRON, TAP (started with ‘bar’) and EAST (the most confusing clue for me). Crosses allowed me to finish with relative ease. All in all a fine effort IMHO, and I find myself in nearly complete disagreement with OFL, who sounds a bit petulant when he struggles with an early week puzzle.
Since I solve for enjoyment and to learn, my times are of no importance so the kind of ”issues” of which our @Rex complains seems just a tad unfair today.
Missed you, @Lms.
ReplyDeleteThis puzzle is so . . . wanting.
ReplyDeleteGood description @KidP 9:07 am. I used to tell my grad student “editing” clients that their content was good but the writing was “wanting.” While I didn’t find the puzzle “terrible,” it certainly could have used some more time editing.
DeleteI totally enjoyed this solve. It took me a bit longer to see the theme than on a usual Wednesday, but once I had CHRIS PINE, I went back up to NIA LONG and I was set. I had never heard of Mr. YEN, but “Rogue One” and “Mad Men” were favorites, so I didn’t mind the struggle. Oddly the iconic BOB HOPE was the toughest for me because his era was of a different generation. I was around, but he was a little fusty for me even in my youth.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I should hang my head when I admit that I think and say crapOLA quite often. It was like bumping into a BFF in an unexpected place.
I had a spot on average time but much more fun than I expect mid-week!
Awful. I managed to finish it without cheating, but don't ask me how. Pure stubbornness, I guess. Don't know all these folks or what they acted in. Don't remotely care. And the one time I did know, I couldn't remember her first name. I was a real "Mad Men" devotee and my absolute favorite character was the redhead. That's right -- "J" something-or-other JONES. Not JANICE. Not JANET. Not JENNIFER. Not JESSICA. What the bleep was it? Finally, finally, it came in.
ReplyDeleteAnd as if there weren't already enough PPP in the themers for three puzzles, the constructor piled on even more in the non-theme answers. Maybe eight or ten more.
There is a type of solver who loves this kind of puzzle. I am not that type of solver. But you already knew that.
Blecchhh!
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia: “A nightcap is a cloth cap worn while sleeping, often with pajamas or a nightshirt.” 👍🏻
ReplyDeleteSo it appears that there's one big upside to this puzzle I hated. It roused my pal @Hartley from her long blog hibernation and brought her back to us -- fairly shaking with enthusiasm for all the pop culture I loathe. She and I have discussed this many times -- how much I hate pop culture trivia-fests and how much she loves them. It makes for an interesting friendship comprised of opposites. (We have different categories that we like on "Jeopardy", too.) Anyway, glad to see you here again, @Hartley. Don't be a stranger.
ReplyDeleteWell what a strange DNF. ULTRON and DONNIE got me in the PJS region. I think the last time I wore them, BOB HOPE was dancing somewhere in Rio.
ReplyDeleteI kept thinking of Don Draper in "Mad Men." Uh...he wasn't an actress. His wife was named Betty but I couldn't remember her real JANUARY name. Cool beans.
So...I go my merry way and kept putting on my dunce CAP. What's this all about? OH....all these have one of these "want" things. Yeah, corny as Kansas but in a sorta sweet way... like getting those kernels between your teeth and you're not sure what to do with them.
So I looked at the cluing and did some head scratching. What a way to clue LABOR at 10D??? at least say something about 9 months? I did like AMIGA RIOJA because that's what I am. And...when I lie in the sun I Burn and probably BAKE while I really want to tan but God didn't have that planned for me.
So what did I think of the puzzle? I don't know. Will someone please tell me?
Go Niners....
You mean TOO fine a point!
ReplyDeleteI am a big movie fan and will watch anything Chris Pine is in since his song by the waterfall in “Into the Woods” but this was painful. Without knowing him I would have never been able to figure out this puzzle. I am with Rex, the clueing was terrible and no fun. Worst puzzle in a long while.
ReplyDeleteI liked this one. It was just the right kind of challenging and I found that I didn't necessarily need to come up with the names from the clues . . . once I figured out the theme I could piece together actor names that I'd heard of despite the fact that I didn't know they were in those movies. Can't say I struggled too hard in any one place, but I did need to go back over clues several times once I filled in more letters to complete the puzzle. I'm guessing my time was better than Rex's too since he didn't post one.
ReplyDelete@Nancy - January Jones played Don Draper's first wife. She also pulled down about about 980 Helens as "Elinor" in the movie "Pirate Radio as she sailed out to the pirate radio station to the strains of The Turtles delightfully silly "Elinor".I
ReplyDeleteYikes! Am I the only one who absolutely loved the misdirection on nightcap/PJS? Great stuff.
Knew JONES, PINE, and HOPE. Pine not from that flick, but from his terrific work opposite Jeff Bridges in "Hell or High Water" - one of the best flicks you've never seen (especially if you're still angry that the banks got bailed out at the expense of the poorest of us back in 2008).
We do the NYTX every morning. I guess there will always be stuff in a puzzle that’s new. That’s OK. It’s an opportunity to learn something.
ReplyDeleteHey All !
ReplyDeleteAt least it has a good F count going FOR it today, 8! Granted, six are because of the theme, but to start out with 2 was nice.
I thought the theme itself was neat. Had a tougher than normal solve here also. Some clues didn't seem to hit the ole brain squarely.
Had some writeovers, and a silly DNF/FWE. Wrote tam in the slot for RID, reading the Chef Hat clue for that spot. ill for OFT, and once I had the RAISE part of RAISE A BET, threw an S in where the A went.
My silly DNF was I had BAsk for BAKE, leaving me T_nUk for the correct spot Chef Hat, even though I normally leave the N or Q spot open for either IRANI or IRAQI. Plus, I know the Hat as a TOQUE, but that BAsk was too good to let go. (Sad trombone sound)
So a mixed bag today. Joining others in not having heard of DONNIE YEN, but I've probably seen him in something without knowing his name.
So not as many MINUSes as Rex, thought the OLA clue to be quite funny!
BYA.
GAS CAP FLOE
RooMonster
DarrinV
@Roo ... I've gotten better at deciphering your occasionally cryptic posts (and thank you for the many laughs over the years), but what in tarnation is FWE? I'm thinking you didn't mean 'food warming equipment', as Google's first 10 his suggests?
DeleteI am sure they could have found more obscure actors and movies for the clues, especially for Bob Hope.
ReplyDeleteI was out of my Depp.
👎
ReplyDeleteI have seen Rogue One several times, and YENFORDONNIE completely escaped me. It was a veritable Nattick. I had YENFOR_ONNIE and I ran the alphabet and I still couldn't come up with anything that made sense. Ugggh!
ReplyDeleteMohair,
ReplyDeleteYou are correct on the night cap clue. And Hell or High Water. Absolutely superb movie. Not one extraneous scene. maybe not even an extraneowus word. Perfection.
Also, welcome back.
Of all the bad clues today, 10D tops my list: "Something most people don't go into more than once a year" = LABOR.
ReplyDeleteI was 9 minutes above my Wednesday average. I knew the names, but only after they were spelled out (except for Chris Pine & Bob Hope) - another reminder that I am no longer a member of the target market. I didn't terribly dislike the puzzle, I just thought the hardness level was off.
ReplyDeleteI hesitate to add to the critics, because I know the constructors stop by, but this was really a terrible puzzle. Mostly because when you solved the theme, it presented you with what? Nothing. A string of words that made no sense. Just an opportunity to use Jones, Long, Hope, etc. in a puzzle. How did that come about? Did someone notice this while surfing the IMdB? Well, THAT would be fun! Um, nope.
ReplyDeleteYes, the clues are terrible. But I'm surprised no one has mentioned the worst one. That tortured, over-explained IKEA clue. Who wouldn't get THAT? A swedish store that sells sinks? Let me think. Let me think. It's Wednesday, not Monday, and even on Monday that wouldn't be clever at all.
I do take exception to the EPA complaint. I would venture to say that 98% of the people who work there are doing just that. Their hands may be tied at the moment, but that's the goal for most of the employees there. Let's try to remember that. When we finally get rid of this administration, we can get back to work.
Cheers.
I gotta stop reading Rex's "relative difficulty" before I tackle the puzzle. I clouds my brain.
ReplyDeleteThe øre is even worse than a foreign diacritical mark—while it may look like o, ø is actually an entirely separate letter in Danish. It’s like putting a t in for an l, because hey, it’s just one extra line, how much could it change things?
ReplyDelete@JC66 and others are right: the LABOR clue is awful!!! Especially since some people -- male people, that is to say -- don't even go into it less than once a year.
ReplyDelete@Mohair -- After reading @GILL's post, I was planning to tell her that JANUARY JONES wasn't Betty Draper, that she was the redhead. Joan, I think. So I Googled it. And it turns out I was wrong. JANUARY JONES was Betty Draper. I am so terrible at pop culture; even when it's a show I completely devoured, I either forget or misremember. Thanks for the correction.
BTW -- this puzzle brought back both @Mohair (welcome back, @Mohair!)and @Hartley -- so from that standpoint it may be the best puzzle of the year.
Amen @nancy ... not to mention LMS
DeleteClever even if corny theme but I hate to say pretty much agree with Rex today. Even before reading his take on it, I was wincing at some of the clues. First of all, PJS and nightcaps. Meh. People don’t go into LABOR, women do. Of all the ways to clue DEPTS - co, corp, govt, etc. - why univ? I agree YEN would never be used as a verb. I might yearn for DONNIE, whoever he is, but I would never YEN for him. Like someone else said, LONGFORNIA made me think we were going to have a play on state names. Theme is okay but inconsistent with four movies and one TV series. I did love JANUARY JONES in Mad Men, the best series in television history IMO. She and the inimitable Don Draper were a couple for the ages.
ReplyDeleteThis was quite a nice Wednesday challenge. I had fun while I was solving and a warm feeling of accomplishment when I was finished without error. What more could an old topologist want?
ReplyDeleteI knew who BOB HOPE was, of course (though he's almost before my time, even), and NIA LONG is crosswordese (at least her first name), but none of the others. Before I was sure of the theme I actually put in idRIS from the RIS in 23A. And BOB HOPE didn't help me much, since I held on to dose for the medicinal qt. at 53D (totally ignoring the cue for an abbreviation).
ReplyDeleteBut somehow I finished! And that's what I want in a puzzle -- a challenge that can be overcome with perseverance and effort. (persevering effort? effortful perseverance?) As for the puns, for me they fell into the 'so bad they're good' category.
While I agree with @sandman that if you wear a night cap you probably wear a nightshirt as well -- but it's still a clever clue, fun to figure out. And I was really happy that 11D didn't turn out to be the made up non-word IRAnI.
I did dislike EFS, which normally is spelled with a second F. OTOH, the clue for IOU was brilliant, in that 'get even' makes one (or anyway, me) think of revenge.
Welcome back, @Loren -- don't be a stranger, now!
Crave for Nick
ReplyDeleteAs is often the case, I enjoyed reading @Rex’s EF assessment without exactly agreeing, except that this was a hard puzzle (about average Friday time for me). Interesting how much controversy there has been about even individual clues. I agree with those (great to see you again, @LMS!) who have opined that some of the clueing provided real fun.
ReplyDeleteRe the theme, as a big fan of Mad Men, I knew JANUARY JONES, which cracked it open for me, and NIA LONG from a fairly recent appearance in the NYTXW. Other names were inferable from crosses, except for the last one. I ended up staring at a completely blank SE corner, thinking for a while that HOPE would be the first name of a female actor (formerly known as actress). I remember BOB HOPE well (and always happy to encounter any BOB now, as my dad was one, and few are still around), but think first (and second and third) of his long run as the host of the Oscars show (which he memorably quipped was known as “Passover” at his house, acknowledging the very forgettable quality of his own appearances on the big screen). Once that clicked for me I was done pretty quickly.
Thanks to @Declan for reminding me of grawlix (I think I saw it originally in a post here some time ago), and to @Amelia for reminding us that the EPA is about more than just its leadership--like many other parts of government in our sad time, it is staffed by skilled and dedicated public servants who are doing their best under very trying circumstances. A friend who is quite knowledgeable about government tells me the gradual erosion of such professional staffs is creating what will be one of the most harmful legacies of the Trump era.
And yay me for finishing this PPP-laden puzzle without help from Google!
Spanish table whine: "No me gustó esta crapola."
ReplyDeleteI don't think the theme clues really work because in order to create the "wordplay" you have to sort of pretend the actors don't have last names. E.g. the answer to 17a seems like it should be LONG FOR NIA LONG. And so on. That she and January Jones have distinctive first names helps, but at 55a you're hoping for some actor named...BOB. It seems kind of clunky, but I'm not sure how you could fix it.
Don't happy cowpokes cry "Yeehaw!"? And did we really need a 25-word clue to get to OHIO? Any single one of those space-age "firsts" would have sufficed.
Even Fido is afraid to bark.
Some loved it, some hated it (like me). I guess that’s why we have fervent Trump lovers and haters. Different worlds.
ReplyDeleteHope, pine, yen (Not a verb) , long....ok. Never heard of Mr Yen but ok. Of course I know who January Jones is, but never in my 55 years have I heard anyone use the word JONES as a synonym for any of the above? Something new among the younger generation?
ReplyDeleteAll these pop culture names? And HOL and OLA?
ReplyDeletePPP phew!
ReplyDeleteI count ten bad clues, the most that I can remember. I blame Shortz for that. He is free to change any clue.
ReplyDeleteJanuary Jones, what a sexy beauty. I’ve seen every episode of The Sopranos. She was a consistent asset. I remember the scene where she allowed herself to be picked up in a bar and hooked up with the guy in the restroom. I first saw her in a bit part in Love, Actually. She was one of the three girls the oafish guy meets when he comes to the US.
Did not enjoy at all. I don't think puzzles have any obligation to be timeless, but when i'm back in the archives, puzzles like this, which are so dependent on of-the-time pop culture are very frustrating to me. You really have no chance of finishing this without googling a name if you're not actively keeping up with tv and movies, which I am not, and this is age independent. Not a terrible puzzle, but not very fun either.
ReplyDeleteIt was patently terrible.
ReplyDeleteThought it was clever, enjoyed it. Could not believe the memory of my begging my parents to take me to “Here Come the Girls” (in vain, too racy) would come in handy a half-century and more later. Also can’t believe I begged to go see a Bob Hope movie as a 7 year old.
ReplyDelete@Nancy, I can’t quite see this as best puz of the year, but today’s commentary has to be a COY contender. Nice to see @LMS, @Hartley, @Mohair,et alia back in the POOL as you noted.
ReplyDeleteCluing was just awful on this one. When you've got more than a couple of "?" clues, you're overdoing your cleverness. This one had almost a dozen. An IOU is not a "vow"; as pointed out previously, fully half the world's population (men) never go into labor, so hardly "most"; opera soloists aren't "singles"; and on and on. But can someone please explain who are the "checkers" in a POKER game (30D)?
ReplyDeleteto check = to not bet and wait for the next player to bet before deciding to pass, go in or raise
DeleteWell, technically you could have a child in January (the month, not the Actress☺️), and have another in December, thereby going into labor twice in one year.
ReplyDeleteI had a friend in High School, he was the middle of three kids all born 11 months apart, so my theory is on solid ground.
RooMonster Laborious Guy
As someone who struggles on pretty much 90% of these puzzles (even the Mon/Tues ones from time to time!), I actually found myself trucking through this one until I hit the NW corner, uselessly beating my head against the keyboard trying to figure out, well, pretty much all the clues. I only (wrongly) had FARSI instead of IRAQI and that ruined my chances until I finally saw LIMB as the way, and it opened up the whole thing for me.
ReplyDeleteThis was a non-cheat solve for me though, so I always take that as a ethical victory. Any time I get under an hour is a good day!
For those who don't know Donnie Yen: Check out the Ip Man trilogy, available on Netflix. The three movies are based loosely on the life of Bruce Lee's teacher. All three are terrific; I recommend they be seen in order.
ReplyDeleteRex, not just corny but skeevy. I always feel bad for celebrities with their occupational risk/reality of creepy stalker fans. 20A-Creepazoids gaze, indeed. On this topic, check out Gavin de Becker's amazing book, The Gift of Fear.
ReplyDeleteOK... @Lewis, I respect the fact that you have generous words for all constructors and always look for the positives in a puzzle, but MY GOD...This is the worst puzzle we will get all year. I dont care what comes after it.Total constructor and editor failure. bff gif psa thu depts bya. Which ones are abbreviations and which are not? The editor doesn't know, apparently. When I got to "Stands for" and realized the word wanted was "mock" I refused to go any further. Crapola indeed. Someone else can count the namesTotally with Rex for a change.
ReplyDeleteFirst time in ages I struggled with a Wednesday puzzle. Here Come the Girls? Never heard of it. Not a fan. Crapola indeed.
ReplyDeleteMales don’t go into labor ? Seriously? What is this a Fox News sponsored website ?
ReplyDeleteGarbage.
ReplyDeleteHoly Ultron-ola, Batman. Lotsa people not havin the JONESes for this puppy. Guess M&A is pretty easy to please … thought it was cautiously acceptable.
ReplyDeleteDidn't know the actor with a YEN. Real vaguely knew the one with the JONES. Pretty sure I hadn't heard tell of ULTRON or ALI Wong. Everything else was familiar, and the unfamiliars were nicely strewn out, sooo … tolerable smooth solvequestin, at our house.
A few feisty clues chewed on my precious nanoseconds, but, hey -- it's a WedPuz. Most mysterious clue: {Drooping flower feature} = BELL. Unclear, as a bell. fave feisty clue: {Vow to get even?} = IOU.
Not a lotta the fillins really jumped out at m&e as faves. Maybe TOQUE. I reckon sorta also ULTRON, as he has his head in the right place, and fittinly crosses "HUH?".
staff weeject pick: OLA. Admired its crap clue. Also gotta give some honorable mention cred to THU's turkey clue.
Thanx for all them FOR players, Mr. Newton. CRAVINFORWES? … yeah, didn't hardly think so; (maybe in a runtpuz, tho). [Don't judge m&e.]
Masked & Anonymo4Us
**gruntz**
I'm so glad the expert hated this as much as I did. I don't watch movies, particularly the glut of superhero movies that I guess everyone else has.
ReplyDeleteAlso got stuck on RAISE. RAISE A BET is barely English and I dabble in poker. The clue for POKER is a little better.
Never seen YEN in my life... old English or something?
And then your usual fill. I've only done the NYTXW for a month or so but I've seen SOT(S), EFS (or other letter spellings), BOA(S), IAMSO (or some variant), LEER enough times to know.
CRAPOLA... is OLA really a suffix here? Doesn't a suffix need to perform in some way?
I got IOU, thought it was kinda clever. Univ. units being DEPTS is technically right, but I went the route of Univ. meaning universal and units being those of measure.
This was really contrived, from the perspective of a novice solver, anyway. Maybe that means I'm moving up in the world.
Challenging for a Wednesday, indeed. I'm with @Joaquin on my familiarity with the theme answers and even good old Bob Hope had to fill in by crosses due to the WOE clue. "Here Come the Girls"??? Of course I knew NIA LONG due to crosswordese, and some comment recently, (here on this blog, I think) about guessing CHRISes led me to the PINE FOR answer but it's true, picking any of the first four from a lineup would be impossible for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to buck the trend and say I thought the LABOR clue was cute, along with M&A's fave IOU clue. ARIA and BANK clues, no thanks. And my least favorite was EAST, 51A. That far SE section was well and away the hardest for me because of 33D, 53D, 60A, 63A (there are many, many parts of a tavern) and yes, 51A. I finally did a hail mary on the RAISE A BET and finished.
I Googled YEN post-solve because I didn't believe it could be a verb but online Merriam Webster says yes. And I trust M-W (right, @Diana LIW? :-) ).
Jeremy Newton, I think you did a fine job finding people whose names fit your theme.
And I'll add to @Loren's call to join us at the ACPT. This will be my fourth year and it's always fun to see the people I've met on this blog plus you can rub shoulders with the likes of BEQ, Bruce Haight, Robyn Weintraub, Tracy Gray, etc. You can ride the elevator with Deb Amlen or Sam Ezersky and have a bonus puzzle handed out by Stan Newman. I'm flying in from Minneapolis, so you all who live a train ride away should just come. @Hartley70, are you in? (I'll give @Nancy a pass on attending - her dislike of puzzle tournaments is well documented!)
I didn't completely hate this, but it was close. Average or better than average time, but oh boy, did it feel longer. I didn't know Donnie Yen and I only know Nia Long from crosswords. Also, I don't know who January Jones is, but I do know the name. So the theme wasn't a lot of help, but it also didn't really get in the way, either.
ReplyDeleteEFS was when I was just completely taken out of the puzzle. You spell it EFfS, not EFS. You just do. PHILS? Also, "By the dawn's early light" does not at all invoke "EAST". Nothing about that clue implies a direction. The clue on NESS is just, ugh. Not hard, but there are better ways to clue that than a partial. You RAISE THE ante or the stakes. You don't RAISE THE BET. I mean, you do, but nobody says that. BYA, another terrible partial. Why are DEPTS Univ. Inits? What about DEPTS says it's from a university? Lots of things have DEPTS.
Just a lot of slightly-off cluing, poor fill, and a not-very-good theme. But hey, it was pretty easy, I suppose.
This could be the worst NYT puzzle I've ever done and I've been puzzling for 20 years. Holy cow.
ReplyDeleteTruly awful. How does something like this get published?
ReplyDelete@TJS 12:16. I agree with your assessment. The clue for MOCK was "Just pretend" in the NYT online version. This works if you think of pretend as a noun. The fight was just pretend. It was a MOCK fight.
ReplyDeleteOverwrought to be kind
ReplyDeleteWow I'm really surprised everyone hated it as much as Rex. I was expecting to come to the comments and have the consensus be that Rex is being overcritical. I am not good at hollywood trivia. Without the clues, I wouldn't be able to name a single movie/show any of these people were in. But Nia Long, Bob Hope, and Chris Pine are all names that my brain fuzzily remembers as famous people.
ReplyDeleteSo when I got ____FORNIA entirely from crosses right at the start (yes - I know who ALI Wong is. Fantastic comedian. Look her up if you've never seen her stuff), the theme was obvious. Then it was really easy even though I've never heard of Donnie Yen or January Jones. I got little "aha" moments when I figured out each of the themers I knew, and that's good enough for me.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. All of the people complaining that using contemporary pop culture isn't timeless enough - why is it that you never complain when a puzzle has pop trivia from the 40s? I live in this century. I'd much prefer my crosswords to as well. Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it's not valid.
Per Merriam-Webster: yen is a verb, meaning what you'd expect.
ReplyDeleteInre today’s Rexrant: Zounds, doth this signal a strong letter to follow from Our Leerless Feeder?
ReplyDeleteI'm an illustrator and use a variety of pen widths from thick to fine. Medium That was weak cluing.
ReplyDeleteRight on, Rex. This shambles epitomized what the NYTXW has become under Shortz. *Full* of mistakes (even more than usual), nasty, self-satisfiedly [if there is such a word] obscure, an utter waste of time, newsprint, and pixels. I can't recall a puzzle that did more to set my teeth on edge. Bleeaagh.
ReplyDeleteThank you, MaryRoseG @11:08! I was beginning to think I was the only one on the planet who had never heard JONES used as a synonym for want! Where do they come up with these things?
ReplyDeleteOn top of everything else, the comment page wouldn't let me post. This shambles epitomized all that has gone wrong with the puzzles under Shortz: *full* of mistakes (even more than usual), pointlessly obscure, nasty, smart-ass. Utterly without redeeming social value. Let WS's successor -- and may he/she come soon -- take an oath to run the puzzles through the Times copydesk so that we will have fewer hot messes than this.
ReplyDeleteBlue Stater - I don't know what golden age of puzzles you want to go back to, but I sure hope it's not Maleski. I've got books of those, and I dislike them intensely. Full of minor opera characters, obscure heraldic terms, and mythological trivia. The Shortz era is vastly superior, in my opinion. He made the puzzles fun for me, so I'm a fan. I'm sorry that they are not fun for you. I hope that his successor publishes puzzles that both of us can enjoy.
DeleteAmen, @Steve from NC
DeleteTop half very easy, bottom half a tad less easy, probably because I’ve never heard of DONNIE YEN. I stopped watching Star Wars movies after Return of the Jedi in 1980.
ReplyDelete@Hartley & Perry - nice to hear that people who have actually seen Rogue One didn’t know YEN.
@Mohair - Amen on Hell or High Water.
There have been better Wednesday’s.
Didn't like much about the puzzle. But I do like reminding the world what EPA was founded for even though they aren't allowed to do their job anymore.
ReplyDeleteI think I love a puzzle everyone hates when we get the likes of @Mohair, @Hartley and Amelia to appear. Yay NYT...keep them coming.
ReplyDelete@Amelia: Thanks for your shout-out to rank and file federal employees. So often that is the case. They sincerely want to do their jobs well but their hands are tied by "official" policies.
ReplyDelete@mathgent: I've never seen one episode of The Sopranos, but I've seen every episode of Mad Men at least twice, and January Jones was in quite a few of them, including the one where she hooks up with a stranger in a bar.
Wow, it's been a long time since I've been forced to Google for help. Never heard of the movie Soul Food or the actress. Heard of CHRIS PINE, but had forgotten he was in Wonder Women. Watched one episode of Mad Men, thought I'd learned the names of the lead actors and actress from all the hoopla, but apparently not. I watched Rogue One, but don't remember DONNIE YEN (who apparently I've also seen in the first Ip Man movie). And while I've certainly heard of BOB HOPE, never heard of this movie and wasn't looking for something so old when the others were all contemporary. I was forced to see the Avengers, but could not remember ULTRON's name either. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't cowboys say yee-haw? Yes, that's what the dictionary says too. YOOHOO is what you old ladies say when they want you to come over to them. Or it's a chocolate drink.
The concept was cute, but the crosses were so tricky it really made it unnecessarily hard, BELL? I had BAsk, can never remember ALI's name, wanted GoopIER instead of GUMMIER, and on and on...
Tried to make it a fun Wednesday with RAISE THE BAR going from 33 down to 63 across. Shame on me. Had a good laugh at the write up today and completely agreed, thanks Rex!
ReplyDeleteTerrible effin clues! This puzzle sucked. Increase the stakes ... to raise a bet is just flat wrong. I'm not going any further than that.
ReplyDeleteCurious how long this took Rex. I thought this was very challenging for a Wednesday. Loved the theme, and some clever clues, but agree that the EPA under Trump no longer protects the environment. Had to google 36 across, otherwise a tough but satisfying challenge.
ReplyDelete@Nancy10:51 - You reminded me that I have to suppress the urge to correct people when they say “We’re pregnant” in that “we’re in this together” besotted voice. “We’re having a baby” or “we’re expecting” are fine, but trust me, the sperm donor is not “pregnant.” I haven’t tested this hypothesis, but my theory is no woman ever utters “We’re pregnant” for the second baby.
ReplyDeleteSix comments from "unknown" (all blue) - one commentator? Six different folks? Moderators know they are different people?
ReplyDeleteI cry foul. Cannot be more than one "unknown". Could there be another GillI or LMS?
You're all naive beyotches. the EPA never cared about the environment regardless of who is CEO of the USA
ReplyDeleteZ,
ReplyDeleteNo need to test. I have the answer. I know at least three women who have used the term we're pregnant not only for their second, but in the case of my sister-in-law, her third and fourth as well.
I have no idea how commonly mothers to be use the term after their first baby, but I know enough to not to make my personal thoughts on the subject
any kind of general reference.
@Z
ReplyDeleteYears ago, I dated a telephone operator and once, during the heat of it all, she reversed the charges.
@Steve from NC -- I agree, let's have puzzles that a broader spectrum of puzzlers can enjoy. You're right: I do hark back to the Maleska era as a much more enjoyable one for me. His puzzles were an intellectual feast, and factual and linguistic errors were extremely rare. You and I could start, perhaps, by agreeing that the puzzles should contain far fewer mistakes. The way to do that, as I have many times suggested, is for WS to run the puzzles through the Times copydesk. Yes, I've been a copyeditor (not for the Times, though), and I would *never* have allowed through the kinds of mistakes that have been all too routine in these puzzles over the last 25 years. I can't believe that the Times desk would. Maybe the triumph of hope over experience....
ReplyDeleteGreetings from Australia, don’t know what day it is, and no one is still dealing with this puzzle but I hated it and had a terrible time with it but when I finished it and got Mr Happy Pencil, I was thoroughly delighted!
ReplyDeleteIDEALS ORE NOOKS
ReplyDeleteIAMSO glad he ADORES his AMIGA,
all I CANDO is HOPEFORBOB, that joker,
that he’s LABORed SO LONGFORNIA,
I HOPE he OFT HASAGO to POKER.
--- ERICA RIOJA
Take heart, Jeremy: you have at least one fan! The clues that many are dismissing as "bad" were tricky, but I found nothing unfair in them. They simply looked like they belonged to a Friday puzzle. So, Hump Day gets a little respect. What's to hate?
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I read through the clue list and my first reaction was HUH? Second time through, I found LIMB/BAsk: yeah, that's right, a mistake right from the get-go. I hadn't noticed the TOQUE gimme yet, or I would've avoided that writeover. But this thing seemed to fight me almost all the way, except for the gimme of all gimmes: my beloved PHILS! Even with a blue Phanatic (How COULD you, guys?), I love 'em.
Other than the RPR (random playground retort), the fill wasn't bad at all. I LONGFORNIA, DOD. Side note: a 10-letter entry ending in -FORNIA but not starting CALI-! Wonderful stuff! Birdie.
@SANDMAN: had the same image in my mind. It was a picture in The Night Before Christmas" book I had as a child.
ReplyDeleteQuite a few baddies lately. This one had too many obscure names and the “reward” the theme offered was not worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know CHRIS from Wonder Woman. TV? Movie? I don't even know that.
ReplyDeleteBut I did get everything else, once I looked up 'ole whatshisname.
Hey @Spacey - I saw the PHILS at Connie Mack Stadium many years ago. It was a treat outing for those of us on the "Safety Squad" in 6th Grade. Good times in Philly.
Diana, Lady-in-Waiting for Crosswords
I have read comments only by Rex, Lewis, and LMS.
ReplyDeleteRex is, well, Rex, and I give him credit for telling it like he sees it. Lewis, as usual, sees the silver lining but not the dark cloud. And LMS again today has her own diverting, often entertaining perspective. They pretty much represent the spectrum.
As for me, I found this puzzle to be kind of rough with hairy little clots like GIF, ALI, HUH, BYA, ONO, and would add IAMSO to the bunch. Theme was okay once getting the hang of it, but didn't know DONNIE YEN and was lsurprised to see BOB HOPE after all these years.
The puzzle is a mix of good and bad, old and new, clever and dull. Overall, I'd grade it a C.
Did not know CHRIS nor DONNIE.
ReplyDeleteHow about we GRAB a quick TOQUE?
JANUARY JONES in a landslide. Si AMIGA.
I thought it was OK.
Just to prove that the commentariat is not a monolith, I rather enjoyed this puzzle. I guess my opinion doesn't count because I pretty well like all NYTXwords. Much better than some who don't like anything, or those who don't like puzzles that aren't congruent with their narrow interests. Gives some balance to the comments.
ReplyDeleteI picked up the theme with LONG FOR NIA, and knew 3 of them right off. Oddly HOPE FOR BOB took the longest, mainly because I had to sort out the "medicinal qty" and EAST. Speaking of that, I did like many of the twisted clues which made me think - always a plus.
Er, how about "want a bicuspid replaced?" Ache for tooth. To quote M&A, didn't think so; tooth isn't a person's name, nor is toothache.
I didn't know "bell" or "floe" so I skipped the upper left and ended up with _ _ _ _ for Nia. Since I have no idea who that is, put in "Need for Nia" which threw me in the complete wrong direction. I was familiar with the other four actors/actresses although I hadn't heard of "Here Come the Girls" but took a lot of crosses before I was able to fix my errors and figure out what was going on and get the eventual full clear.
ReplyDeleteI didn't HATE the puzzle but "raise a bet" was pretty bad.
Aside: the Captcha keeps asking me to pick all the pictures with bridges and then giving me pictures with overpasses. What's next? Asking me to click all the sandwiches and giving me nothing but hamburgers and hotdogs?