Relative difficulty: not hard, especially if you've seen all the terrible fill before and recognize the cluing angles from older puzzles

THEME: "What Are The Odds?" — some entries spell out words / phrases with their odd letters, and those are then used to clue nearby entries
Theme answers:
Hard to tell where to begin with this blog; so many things I could complain about, and a much smaller, non-positive number of things that I enjoyed. Christopher Adams here, filling in for Rex, and really hoping that the wish from past me for a good Sunday was actually fulfilled. Instead, we get this puzzle, which, I honestly cannot say if any part of this proves that this puzzle wasn't made twenty years ago—so much of this gives off that vibe, and the solving experience sure felt like the slog of picking a random archived puzzle from back then.
Olio:
[Follow Rex Parker on BlueSky and Facebook and Letterboxd]
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- [Moisture barrier supplies] for PLASTIC SHEETS, odd letters spell out PATCHES, which is used as the clue for GIVES A DARN
- [A hard job] for NO EASY TASK --> NESTS --> STICKY PADS
- [Fictional diary writer] for BRIDGET JONES --> BIG TOE --> LOW DIGIT
- ["One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" author] for KEN KESEY --> KNEE --> CHILD SUPPORT
- [Conan and others] for BARBARIANS --> BRAIN --> THINKPIECE
- [Client's sales agent, in brief] for ACCOUNT REP --> ACUTE --> NOT QUITE RIGHT
Senta Verhoeven (née Berger; born 13 May 1941) is an Austrian-German actress. She received many award nominations for her acting in theatre, film, and television; her awards include three Bambi Awards, two Romys, an Adolf Grimme Award, both a Deutscher Fernsehpreis and a Bayerischer Fernsehpreis, and a Goldene Kamera. [I briefly got excited when I saw Wikipedia listed her father-in-law as Paul Verhoeven, but it's not the "RoboCop" director, just another dude that happens to share his name.]
• • •
Maybe the closest we get to a modern thing in this puzzle is BROCODE, which isn't great and feels pretty dated and icky as is. I'm not counting the clue for WINONA as a modern thing from a constructing viewpoint, btw; you could easily imagine that entry put in a puzzle that's older than I am, with that clue being an edit to try to make it feel more modern. Even if that's the case, attempt failed—so, so much terrible fill that I will inevitably miss some in the following list: OKED, HOR, OSE, INRE, PHYS, TENHUT, AEC, TASS, RET, SENTA, IS AT, PARI, CIRC, THE RAP (as far as I'm concerned, this is essentially a six letter fill in the blank clue even if not formatted as such). Plus clue/entry pairs that felt like Eugene T. Maleska was back in the land of the living: ERIN, ELIA, TAU, KEEN (especially bad, and especially when juxtaposed with the "how do you do fellow kids" feeling from ROFL—which, now that I think about it, might beat BROCODE for the newest thing in this puzzle, but also feels old and outdated).
[a clip from "Bridget Jones", mostly chosen because at 0:22, there's a brief cameo of Mark Goodliffe, of "Cracking the Cryptic" fame, and if you're interested in sudoku, I make those too]
But this is all to bury my biggest problem with this puzzle, which is that the words/phrases spelled out by the odd letters are being used as clues, when they fit much better as answers. In a way, I'm reminded of those old-timey themes (that you don't see much these days, for a good reason) where all the theme clues are [Spot] or something equally dull and boring, and the entries in the grid aren't really answers, but clues, and everything feels backwards. Same feeling here—[Gives a darn?] would be an excellent clue for the answer PATCHES, but that works because you're putting the slippery, fun part in the clue, and alerting the solver that something tricky is afoot with the question mark; on the other hand, having [Patches?] as a clue for GIVES A DARN as an answer does not work as well, and similar for the rest of the theme entries.
Olio:
- ACC [Stanford and Cal joined it in 2024] — actually, this might be the worst clue/entry in the puzzle, if only because it reminded me of the travesty that college sports is right now; I cannot wait for the Big Ten to become so big that it naturally splits into a Midwestern and Pacific division, and then back into the old Big Ten and the Pacific (pick a number), as it should be.
- TCU [The Horned Frogs of Ft. Worth] — there are much better ways to signal "abbreviation" than writing Fort Worth like that (and, imo, this clue does not need an abbreviation signal in the clue, given that the abbreviation is way, way more common than the full, unabbreviated name).
- TOOTIN ["Yer darn ___!"] — I didn't actually dislike this entry by itself, but putting this right next to GIVES A DARN was certainly a choice.
- KEN KESEY ["One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" author] — The movie based on this book is one of the many Oscar Best Picture winners with six words in its title, but that's not the most words in the title of a Best Picture winner. In fact, there's two with more than six words in their title; can you name them?
- CHOCTAW [One of the so-called Five Civilized Tribes] — There is an essay to be written about how awful the word "civilized" is here; I'm not going to write it, but I will say that it says a lot about the editing process for using a very controversial term that inherently frames things with a white superiority complex, and that is very much not used by the tribe in question because of how problematic the terminology is (and it's not like info about this being controversial is hard to find or anything).
Yours truly, Christopher Adams, Court Jester of CrossWorld
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Felt the same exact way. So outdated, ROFL for u slay me?!
ReplyDeleteWait so did he like it or not
ReplyDeleteRofl
DeleteDoing Sunday puzzles on your phone is really bad for your eyes but as is usual these days that's how I did this one. It truly was a crosswordese fest. I did finish it cleanly with only a few write overs along the way. What I recall were ROTI/PITA, DAMN/DARN and PARA/PARI
ReplyDeleteBELIKE for "mimic" be like nails on a chalkboard.
A very clever theme with a good title but the fill was a bit brutal.
Easy. I almost paused to figure out the theme but I didn’t want to spoil my whoosh.
ReplyDeleteCute idea, liked it, but I wasn’t paying as close attention to the fill/theme as @Christopher was.
Not only do I completely agree with everything written here, but the datedness of the puzzle would never have occurred to me, so I'm glad Christopher pointed it out. This was as fun as it was difficult... and there was very little difficulty. Honestly, I really liked NOTQUITERIGHT, and I thought most of the other theme answers were complete garbage.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteEasy. Picked up on the theme right away. Liked it better than @Christopher and most of the commenters who preceded me. But I agree with @Christopher about the Big Ten. And "Civilized."
* * * _ _
Overwrites:
CInC (Copywriter-in-chief?) before CIRC for the 94D magazine fig.
SSw before SSE at 44A. I need to brush up on my Ohio geography.
At 56D, my chocolate was ReESE's before it was RIESEN.
My counting rhymes always start with EENey, not EENIE.
AORTic before AORTAL at 95A.
WOEs:
Golfer Mark O'MEARA at 16D.
RIESEN chocolates (56D).
Jazz subgenre NEOBOP at 104D.
Essays of ELIA (105A).
Old or not, I like this kind of puzzle.🎈🎈🎊🎊
ReplyDeleteChris pretty much nails this one. I can overlook musty fill occasionally if I’m taken by the theme or construct - but this one has none of it. Last Sunday we had the inane “dress for the job” theme and today this disjoint play. I know it must be hard to build large grid puzzles but I just can’t believe that these are the best submissions they get for Sundays.
ReplyDeleteWINONA
It became a themeless solve quickly - again I can’t see the helper circles solving on the app in dark mode - I don’t even try anymore. It is densely thematic - so the effort was there. Love seeing KESEY in the grid.
Holland, 1945
I’m not as bothered with the fill - although things like LEAPERS, JOWLY and especially OBTUSER don’t help matters. OPPRESS, LURID, TEA ROSE, CUT IN ON - there’s some solid stuff here - just not enough to carry the Sunday sized grid.
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on CHOCTAW Ridge
It didn’t take long - made it through in a single across/down pass with a few stragglers. A bleak start to the solving week.
And don't forget WINONA,
Kingman, Barstow, San Bernadino
This was fine. As an AARP member, I don't mind if a puzzle is a little dated; in fact, too many new things (esp. popular culture) grate on me. The worst part of the puzzle for me was the western portion, where KENKESEY crossed with RIESEN and SENTA; and BELIKE, which (agree with @puzzlehoarder) was awful.
ReplyDeleteI've never seen or heard AORTAL (95A) used in medical practice. I had AORTIC in there for a long time, and finally figured out this wouldn't fit. I searched "AORTAL" on PubMed, which returned 1,414 results; I then searched "AORTIC" on PubMed, which returned a whopping 405,223 results. It looks like most journal articles using the term "aortal" come out of non-native English speaking countries.
Thanks for confirming my gut feel re aortic.
DeleteAgree with Chris and most commenters: I had to brush away some cobwebs on this one. Also agreed: I couldn't see the circled letters in dark mode, particularly because I'm timing my solve and didn't want to waste time zooming in or otherwise peering closer to see them, so it was themeless and thus even more of a slog for me. Do better, NYT (which has multiple meanings).
ReplyDeletewhen YPRES, INRE, and ETNA all crossed, I be like, “Alas, Ah Me,” this puzzle sucks.
ReplyDeleteHey All !
ReplyDeleteWanted to have the "oddly" Themers match the larger answers, to be "ironic", but only BARBARIANS-THINK PIECE fits the bill. Would've been neat to have had that as an extra Theme layer.
Liked this idea. Puz was good. Tough to get any sort of clean fill with the Theme running all over the grid. Disagree with Christopher on the fill. Every puz has junk, this one needed it because of the constraints.
NW and West-Center held me up a bit. Finished With Errors (FWE), having SeTATOP/eEC and NOTo/PSo. ALAS.
Neat puz, Mark. Any puz with JOWLY has to be good. 😁
Hope y'all have a great Sunday!
Three F's
RooMonster
DarrinV
What kills me is the repeated appearance of AORTAL in these puzzles. In medicine (which, let’s be fair, is the only context in which most people use the word aorta) we never refer to anything relating to the aorta as aortAL… it’s always aortIC. Aortic arch. Aortic insufficiency. Aortic stenosis. Aortic occlusion catheter. Aortic balloon pump. The adjectival form of aorta is aortic, not aortal and I don’t care which wrong dictionary these puzzle creators are using as a reference. Heck, even Websters online redirects searches for aortal to the entry for aortic. Perhaps this is a common formulation outside the US? But the NYT typically uses standard American English spellings unless clued otherwise. /rant
ReplyDeleteFrom a cardiologist outside the US - agree 100%. Never ever heard "aortal."
DeleteI don’t think our guest host cared for this one very much, and my experience was very much in alignment with his. The whole time I was solving it I basically had two thoughts - “Why am I doing this?” and “When will this be over?”. I guess if you are a constructor and can appreciate the architecture, you might find it appealing. I stuck it out due to stubbornness and the hope that I might learn something that will come in handy in the future.
ReplyDeleteI was tempted to suggest that the constructor must have some type of sadistic trait in order to subject the solvers to something like this, but I won’t ascribe any ulterior motives and just assume that he was shooting for something special and challenging but missed the mark badly.
35:57 for me, so medium challenging. It was just tricky and slightly convoluted because for each of the themers if you wanted the benefit of a clue, you had to solve the paired themer with the circles first, then read the every-other-letter word and use that as the clue to the other entry. But then they were pretty indirect… right? ACUTE for NOTQUITERIGHT! A little geometry for us about triangles there…. How ‘bout “KNEE” for CHILDSUPPORT. I enjoyed this puzzle, the redirects and misdirects were great. My last square was the E in SENTA/KENKESEY. I started with A—if I had just looked at the circled letters in that one, it would have told me it was SENTA. YACHTS as clued was great, and NEOBOP was fun! AORTAL is not really used—AORTIC, yes, but not so much AORTAL. Overall, ***.5, thumbs up from me, thanks Mark!
ReplyDeleteI get the same tired speech from my otolaryngologist about my bad habits every time I see him. Frankly, I'm tired of the ENTRAP.
ReplyDeleteThe actress Berger's assistants: SENTA's little helpers.
Failing to fold the egg whites into the batter carefully is a STIRSIN.
The curious Spanish tot asked so many questions, his MAMA had no choice but to BANQUE.
So so bad. Could not believe as I was solving 🤦🏻♀️
ReplyDeleteQuite fitting that 1A is ICK. An absolutely unpleasurable soup of PPP, trivia and utterly terrible fill. AH ME.
ReplyDeleteNo, just no, to obtuser!!!
ReplyDeletePHEW, NOTA THERAP YORE MAMA SANG, ALAS
ReplyDeleteWhat are the Oscar’s movies?! It’s a mad mad mad mad world?
ReplyDelete🤴💍:↩️👑
Delete🐦⬛👨🏻(😮🤷🏻♂️)
It's not much better, but the international edition of NYT has the CHOCTAW clue as "Enemy of the Creek"
ReplyDelete(deniz from thegirdleofmelian.blogspot.ca; google is giving me sign-in grief)
And the NYT Magazine has it clued as [Native people of the Southeast]. Again, not much better.
DeleteThat is fascinating! I think both are better than any mention of “civilized.”
Delete“a much smaller, non-positive number of things that I enjoyed”
ReplyDeleteSo you enjoyed absolutely nothing (or, I guess, a negative number of things) about this puzzle?
solid points regarding the puzzle overall, but this was my favourite note
Deletesolid points regarding the puzzle overall, but this was my favourite note
DeleteEasy-Medium. I'm afraid I agree: there's a lot to dislike in this puzzle. I won't say it's HORrible, but its hair is completely gray. (Wait, SENTA who?) HOR reminds me of the horizontal and vertical controls of an old, definitely not HD, TV SET. You younger people will have no idea what I'm talking about! But the thought doth amuse. (And if you do remember those things, then this puzzle in many respects harks back to that time.)
ReplyDeleteAORTAL it had to be, in view of whatever those lords are doing (I put in LEAPing before LEAPERS -- GAH, what a crappy entry that is, one of a number today). Okay, here's a "fun" fact: if it's really true in the song that the true love gives 1 gift on day one, 1 + 2 gifts on day two, etc., then by the time the twelve days are done, that's 364 gifts in all: one for all but one day of the year. (That's the binomial coefficient "14 choose 3", if anyone out there GIVES A DARN.)
OBTUSER. Blech. BELIKE: whoa, jesus. URBS.
I suppose I have better things to do than itemize all of the 364 petty annoyances of this puzzle, so I guess I'll leave it there. Sorry, Mark Diehl: I have a feeling I've enjoyed some of your past creations -- I don't have good recall for such things, ALAS -- but this one just didn't do it for me.
Does anyone refer to a TV as a TV SET these days?
DeleteHa, good one! I guess Mark Diehl just did. But yeah, TV SET conjures an image of rabbit ear antennas and cathode ray tubes and whatnot.
DeleteTTST (thought the same thing)
Deletewho cares if some of the fill is "older"? why does that even matter. I liked the puzzle with the exception of OBTUSER. clunky. Had ReESEs before RIESEN also
ReplyDeleteWho are we to judge who is “civilized” when we allow such drivel as this puzzle’s fill to be inflicted on an unsuspecting public?
ReplyDeleteMe alegra que eso haya terminado.
ReplyDeleteOBTUSER puzzle top to bottom, but I did find the circled theme entries amusing. I agree with Christopher they might be backward with the clue, but alas, that nit was buried under the Sea of GAH.
Much to mock in this gem, so I'll try to find something positive. Yesterday's political discussion on the blog about a Nazi tattoo was a knee slapper, so that's good. But then of course this puzzle lays "civilized tribe" down. So, ugh.
Note to the slush pile editor: If 1A is ICH, it's an auto-reject. It's going to lead to EIN, and ACHT ... and OMEARA ... and LEAPERS. It's just not going to get better.
Well, STICKY PADS is way better. So there's that.
SWISHY and JOWLY are hilariously terrible.
People: 8
Places: 3
Products: 12
Partials: 18
Foreignisms: 10
--
Gary's Grid Gunk Gauge: 51 of 138 (37%)
Funny Factor: 8 🙂
Tee-Hee: TOOTIN'.
Uniclues:
1 A drawing of a horse next to a space alien in a cave in France.
2 We'll use the phrase "civilized tribe" to describe people we would ordinarily abuse.
3 Ban Shrek kicking.
1 BARBARIAN'S THINK PIECE
2 NOT QUITE RIGHT BRO CODE
3 OPPRESS OGRE PUNTER
My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: Lassos a goose. TIES UP HONK.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The knee-slapper yesterday was your claim that people eating oysters on the half shell were eating dead oyster😂😂😂.
DeleteBAD. 27:02
ReplyDeleteMusk: We project sales of our new produce-watering robot, MISTER MISTER, to be in the trillions by 2027.
ReplyDeleteReporter: Is it Eco-friendly?
Musk: ECONO, friendly yes. Although it wasn't real affectionate until we began to STIRSIN into the programming.
Reporter: There are rumors going around that your claim of using 100% tin is untrue and that there is actually NOTA bit in the MISTER MISTER.
MUSK: There is TOOTIN! I SENTA sample to a representative of a prestigious university and the ACC ACCOUNTREP ACCEDED to us saying it's tin.
Reporter: How do I know YORE telling the truth.
Musk: Because ISAYSO.
Thanks, Mark Diehl.
So what's CIRC supposed to mean? I had to run the alphabet at ACC/CIRC, realize that I had a mistake somewhere and look for it (it was SeTATOP - whoops), and then run the alphabet again.
ReplyDeleteI liked the concept of the non-circled themers being punny, but there's not much else to like in a grid that's so full of theme stuff held together by a ton of crosswordese glue.
circulation
DeleteCIRCulation
DeleteCIRCULATION?
DeleteCIRCulation. The “fig.” in the clue indicates that it is to be abbreviated.
DeleteCirculation
DeleteCirculation. Circ for short. Circulation numbers are calculated for the purpose of determining ad rates in print media.
DeleteThe puzzle WAS kind of easy and DID have some pretty old stuff…somehow knew SENTA Berger but at the same time thought…who would remember this person? Nonetheless, once into it, I found myself enjoying figuring out the “oddly” answers…haha…at one point I thought CHILDSUPPers?
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, OBTUSER should be retired permanently.
OH DANG, it's Mark Diehl again! His supervocalic puzzle (phrases with AEIOU) was just a few weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteSlower time than average. I didn't mind the fill but it does skew quite old. ELIA, AMONRA (sometimes AMeNRA), classic '90s crosswordese. The punny theme was great, enjoyed the puzzle overall. Thank you, Mark!
I liked the theme. I'd have liked it better without the circles (I can count all right, and both the title and the clues tell me what I'm counting). And I liked the trickiness, although I still don't understand... oh, wait, NESTS are PADS made of STICKS! A stretch, but I'll take it.
ReplyDeleteBut what's with all the German? Three German words, two of them clued as "in Austria" -- could at least have used different cities! Plus a German actress, a German brand of candy. I've probably missed a few, I'm betting.
Also GAH, with a clue that could have meant anything. And the PUNTER kicks the ball, as opposed to starting the kick. It took much too long to wade through all this. I think I'll go back to skipping Sundays.
I’m not a big soccer fan, but I believe it refers to a goalkeeper who drops the ball and kicks it high and far, à la America football. It usually follows some sort of play stoppage. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I am can elaborate.
DeleteWell, I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon of criticism for this puzzle. As an octogenarian it suited me just fine and I refuse to take the objection to age personally.. True, AORTAL is a bit of a clunker (that area of my heart has more than one repair) but LEAPERS made for an easy fix. At least so far no one has claimed it would have been easy without the circled letters tho I’m sure some members of this blog are capable. I felt this was a bit of a goofy puzzle with some whimsical clues/answers, and some lesser lights like BELIKE, OBTUSER, and SENTA, but then no one is perfect.
ReplyDeleteI really don't want to see Brocode again.
ReplyDeleteQuite awful. Describing it as a slog would be a compliment. In fact I just left it after being about 2/3 done. I would love to see
ReplyDeleteSunday go themeless for, say, a 3 month trial period. How could it get any worse?
I chuckled aloud at STICKYPADS.
ReplyDeleteActually, the "civilized nation" clue is an important reminder of American history. They were called "civilized" because they agreed to "settle down" in towns and begin farming They began writing in their own language and printed newspapers. They organized and petitioned the government. Unfortunately, they also became prosperous, especially when gold was found on their lands. So being "civilized" became the pretext for removal and seizure of their lands and property, again.
ReplyDeleteSorry to say this was a total slog. Maybe had it run on another day (not a Sunday-sized grid) I might have liked it more - dunno - don't think so. It did 'lean older' but then again there were no Star Wars references & no Rap names (no offense to rap fans).
ReplyDeleteSorry, Mark :(
Now I'm off to grudgingly find my typo (sigh) in a Sunday-sized grid for a puzzle I didn't enjoy.
BTW - don't I recall today's sit-in for Rex from another (not-so-popular) write-up???
After I finished and went back to parse the theme answers based on the odd circles, I was left with a "How do I feel about this?" feeling which indicates to me that I'm not very rah-rah about it but I don't hate it.
ReplyDeleteI didn't read the entire clue for CHOCTAW or I would have recoiled somewhat by the "civilized", as Christopher points out. I saw "tribe" and had a C and W in place. I think the editors saw the ickiness of the clue, trying to mitigate it with the "so-called" qualifier. Too bad, didn't work.
I had the hardest time coming up with a six-letter word for "Caressed" up at 17A. At one point I had fElTup there and was appalled but phew, it was PETTED. Still NOT QUITE RIGHT for "Caressed", in my opinion.
I liked the GIVES A DARN for PATCHES pair, THINK PIECE for BRAIN, STICKY PADS for NESTS and NOT QUITE RIGHT for ACUTE. LOW DIGIT and CHILD SUPPORT didn't click as well for me.
Mark Diehl, thanks for some ODDS for Kentucky Derby week.
"Slog" is the only word that came to mind. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteIf Rex can complain about Star Wars or OOH-RAH, then I am going to complain about ever needing to know college sports teams or athletic conferences. Also 90 year old german actresses. Also any Italian musical term (thankfully none of those here).
ReplyDelete100% agree on the fact that the "odd letter" clues were useless. You basically had to get 70+% of the letters from crosses, figure out what word might fit, and then squint REAL HARD to see how you might get that from the clue. Like a lot of Sundays this meant the puzzle was essentially a bunch of tiresome short fill separated by unclued long answers that prevent you from getting a good flow. So the whole thing is a slog.
I got without the helper circles that there was a word hidden in the odd letters of a larger word/phrase almost instantly. But there was no way in hell I was ever going to get STICKY PADS from NESTS or GIVES A DARN from PATCHES. Even after getting the (essentially unclued) answers it took a long time for me to figure out what the relationship was.
Also, HDTVSET as a "man cave" fixture is a garbage answer. Almost all tvs sold in the US for the past two decades have been HD. Especially once the 2010 switch happened, almost no houses have "non-HD" tvs in their living rooms. Also, no one in the history of the world has called it that. You call it a TV. Maybe a TV SET. Maybe an HDTV. But for th emost part its just a TV. It has never been and will never be an HDTV SET.
ReplyDeleteThis is a horrible answer with a horrible clue that just screams of someone patting themselves on the back for how devious and clever they are to put so many consonants together.
I must be very lame. I thought it was ok. I sincerity doubt the double meaning of “oddly” used here has been done to death, if at all. Any Sunday NYT theme gimmick that hasn’t been done to death is ok by me.
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm so old I didn't recognize that the puzzle is dated. Anyway, I liked the theme, including the "backward" sort of relationship between the "clues" (in the circles) and the answers. As in, "What would be a tricky clue for KNEE?" Ah, how about CHILD SUPPORT?" I loved STICKY PADS and thought NOT QUITE RIGHT was very good, too. Speaking of being old, I appreciated that the clue for JOWLY referred to a mastiff.
ReplyDelete