Relative difficulty: Hard (Around 20 minutes, although I was solving on paper)
THEME: TONGUE TWISTER clued as [Certain stumbling block ... or a hint to three pairs of symmetrically positioned answers in this puzzle]— Languages anagram to other words, which are clued in relation to the language. The language ("tongue") is "twisted," i.e. scrambled up.
- My nitpick is I didn't like the word "stumbling block." I suppose it works in the context of "Wow, that was accidentally very difficult for me to read aloud, what a tongue twister!" but I know it more as a cute game. I really wanted something with "language barrier," which of course did not fit.
Theme answers:
Word of the Day: LOGOS (Prancing horse and golden bull, in the auto industry) —
Good morning, friends! We have a One Day Late Malaika MWednesday today, or as you may call it, a Malaika MThursday.
- FLEMISH is clued as [Language in which "zichzelf" is 49-Across]
- The corresponding answer is HIMSELF, which is an anagram of FLEMISH
- LATVIAN is clued as [Language in which "drosmigs" is 57-Across]
- The corresponding answer is VALIANT, which is an anagram of LATVIAN
- CROATIAN is clued as [Language in which "kabanica" is 10-Down]
- The corresponding answer is RAINCOAT which is an anagram of CROATIAN
Word of the Day: LOGOS (Prancing horse and golden bull, in the auto industry) —
The logo of the luxury carmaker Ferrari is the Prancing Horse (Italian: Cavallino Rampante, lit. 'little prancing horse'), a prancing black horse on a yellow background. The design was created by Francesco Baracca, an Italian flying ace during World War I, as a symbol to be displayed on his aeroplane; the Baracca family later permitted Enzo Ferrari to use the design.
The world of bullfighting is a key part of Lamborghini's identity. In 1962, Ferruccio Lamborghini visited the Seville ranch of Don Eduardo Miura, a renowned breeder of Spanish fighting bulls. Lamborghini was so impressed by the majestic Miura animals that he decided to adopt a raging bull as the emblem for the automaker he would open shortly.
• • •
I found this puzzle very hard. Actually, I was a huge hater throughout 90% of the solving process. Then, I understood the theme and become less of a hater. (Many such cases.) I've solved a couple puzzles with language-y themes and it is tough because so much of the information is missing. In this case, three of the long answers were clued functionally as [Language] and another three of the long answered were clued as [Please translate this non-English term]. That makes it super hard to break into the puzzle. I kept checking my entries by looking at a crossing answer, seeing that the crossing answer was a theme clue and going "UGHHHHH!"
Of course-- that's the puzzle!! That's the point of a puzzle... you "puzzle out" what's going on. I often chastise new solvers who think of a crossword as a series of 78 trivia questions that they can either directly fill in, or must skip and give up on. And yet here I am, complaining for sort of the same reason. This was not a high school language test where the puzzle is seeing if I know how to translate the Croatian word "kabanica." This is a game with wordplay where I have to figure out the anagram trick by doing a lot of cross-referencing with entries that have easier clues. And boy oh boy when I figured it out, I audibly breathed a sigh of relief. I find it very exhausting to write scathing reviews of puzzles on here (though I have done it before!!) and I am glad that this was challenging in a way that fell into place and became satisfying. Sort of the perfect Thursday theme.
| Speaking of RAINCOAT, do you guys know where I can buy a beautiful yellow raincoat so that I look like Coraline |
I wish the grid had a little more flow, or connectivity, to it. In this case, I clocked the theme, filled out all the theme answers, and then still had that top-right corner nearly blank. It felt like solving a mini puzzle that was independent from the rest of the experience. All three sections along the top felt quite segmented from the rest of the puzzle. But I understand that grids with mirror symmetry are a little constrained to lay out.
I'm curious what other language anagrams didn't make the cut for this puzzle! It seems like something that could have worked great as a Sunday-sized puzzle.
Bullets:
- [The 1987 film "Spaceballs," e.g.] for FARCE — Oof, I did not like this clue. I had "spoof" for soooo long.
- [Like many mustaches in film] for FALSE — Is this true? I figured actors just.... grew mustaches. Would have made more sense for plays, not films. Although it says "many" not "most" so that could mean anything.
- [Museum's entrance and exit?] for EMS — This is referring to how the letter M begins and ends the word "museum." I hate clues like this, but alas, I myself sometimes write them.
Now that I'm done reviewing the puzzle, I'm going to talk a little bit about the clue [Woman's name invented by Jonathan Swift] for VANESSA. You can skip this part if you like.
I have heard ~two people comment that the NYT puzzle will rarely clue an entry that is a woman's name by simply mentioning a real, famous woman. (Alternatives would include using a noun (like "dawn" as a noun rather than a person), using wordplay ("Name that anagrams to xyz"), or describing the woman via her relationship to a man.) This is not a trend that has stood out to me while broadly solving (which is not to say it does or doesn't exist, just that I haven't noticed!), but I did notice it with this clue, and it's feedback that I think about when I write my own puzzles.
I typically write easy clues. For proper nouns (like Vanessa), I usually to pick the most famous person that I know with that name, and then reference their most famous work. (Lots of subjectivity here, of course! And a big flaw here is that it can lead to repetitive clues.) If I want to make the clue even easier, I'll mention other people in the work as well. For Vanessa, my immediate thought would be:
- Easy clue: [Actress Hudgens of High School Musical]
- Even easier clue: [Actress Hudgens who starred alongside Zac Efron in High School Musical]
After hearing the feedback I mentioned above, I wondered if I should make an effort to clue women's names independently of the men that they have worked with. Ultimately, it is not something that I decided to prioritize, but it is something that I like to have in my brain while I am writing clues. I like to think about people's feedback while I am working, even if I don't take that feedback as a hard-and-fast rule. I think it makes me a more detail-oriented constructor.
What clue would you have written for VANESSA? What feedback would you like for me to keep in my brain while I am constructing?
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VANESSA [Actress and activist Redgrave]
ReplyDeleteSuch an amazing career and life - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Redgrave. One of those cases where I'd take the trade off that more people might have heard of Hudgens these days, especially in a late week puzzle.
When the answer was (obviously) Vanessa, my brain immediately thought of Ms Redgrave. Sign of my age; Malaika's "easy" clue would have stumped me, but Vanessa, like about everything in the puzzle, came to me very easily.
DeleteDidn't catch the nuanced theme until finished, and appreciation flipped (to 👍) after that.
Yeah, my first thought was "Lynn's sister."
DeleteYep. The clue I’d write: Redgrave who’s won an Oscar, Tony and a couple of Emmys.
DeleteNot sure I fully understood Malaika’s word salad, but I know grievance culture when I see it.
It was. I’ve to see Swift in the puzzle. I just visited his tomb. More fun than this puzzle.
Never noticed NYTXW bias re cluing women's names. Perhaps if my wife did XWs, she would have and vehemently pointed it out to me. When we play rummy and she gets a run to the ace, she always lays it down Ace, Queen, King...she says because she's fed up with the "manosphere" and supports No Kings.
DeleteOh, BTW, is LOO/LAV a kea loa for "John" 53D?
Am I projecting the "graphic" capital T and the lower case t mimicking the Tonguetwister?
DeleteI rather liked this theme. The moment the penny dropped was very satisfying.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why the clue for INERTIA, "Resistance to change?", has a question mark. It's not an cryptic or playful way to think of inertia. It's the meaning of the word.
Agree. I sorta wish we didn’t use question marks at all. It would make puzzles harder not to have them, but there are other ways to turn the difficulty up or down. I suppose the question mark here is to keep people from going down the road to “stubbornness“. But the sudden realization that there’s a new aspect to a clue Is part of the pleasure of doing crosswords.
DeleteI see your point. However, I’ve also seen comments in past where people say “there should’ve been a question mark.” Makes me wonder if they reserve the “no question mark” clues for Friday and Saturday. Yeah. I PROBABLY should know the answer to that but I don’t.
DeleteEasy-medium. I caught the theme about half way through which increased the whooshiness factor.
ReplyDeleteCostly erasure Shined before SMILED.
@Malaika - i don’t know VANESSA Hudgens but, like @Adam S, “Actress Redgrave” would have worked for me as an easy clue….and yes, I am a skosh older than you are.
Clever TWIST on anagrams, liked it.
Didn’t fully understand the theme until Malaika’s post - was thinking of tongue twister as a pair of words that are hard to pronounce, rather than tongue referring to language, so didn’t realize that they were anagrams until I was almost finished. Interesting puzzle, good write up. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteWould have loved to see clue of "Language in which 'shingle' is ..." but sadly no.
ReplyDeleteNice
DeleteDear Copro: Not many here in Navajo County can translate your handle-name (fortunately)
DeleteDear Copro: Not many people here in Navajo County can translate your handle/name (fortunately)
DeleteFound it much easier than Malaika did, even though I never caught on to the anagram factor or understood the revealer. Got CROATIAN, FLEMISH, and LATVIAN and their meanings from the crosses. Much friendlier puzzle than most Thursdays, IMHO.
ReplyDeleteI agree - not hard at all and I am a C level puzzler at best !
DeleteI very much agree; since when are Thursday puzzles easier than Wednesdays? Since yesterday for sure, for me!
DeleteSolved in 7+ minutes on my phone, which is like 3.5 minutes on my keyboard (I remain a terrible phone typist). The easiest Thursday I’ve ever done, or close to it.
ReplyDeleteI am also much slower on my phone. Making what we used to call in trading " fat finger errors".
DeleteMy fastest ever Thursday - 11:47 - I'm no speed demon.
Deletehehehe ! i started in to the write up and couldn't wait to write "I finally soared through a Rex dubbed 'Hard' puzzle ! " then i saw it was Malaika. oh to dream. it is still cool that i finished faster than you, Malaika...my apologies.
DeleteVery easy here, too. One of my fastest Thursdays ever. I was initially annoyed by being (apparently) expected to know words from a bunch of languages, then promptly got them all from crosses, and belatedly realized they were anagrams.
DeleteCounterpoint: I found "Vanessa" being an artificial name invented by a writer a fascinating piece of trivia that I was glad to learn about.
ReplyDeleteAgree, that was an interesting thing to learn today. But I appreciate Malaika’s point and am in the Redgrave camp, never having seen High School Musical. Also [opera by Samuel Barber] is too obscure and uses a man’s name to get to the answer.
DeleteBut overall, I really enjoyed this puzzle and the theme. Didn’t catch the anagram aspect till after the finish, which came quickly— not as fast as Rex, but about two thirds of a typical Thursday time.
Yeah it is fun to learn new trivia and maybe you understood her actual point, but it would be interesting to track how often women’s names vs men’s names are clued in ways that might unconsciously and therefore unintentionally elevate men’s prominence and accomplishments.
DeleteExactly so. That’s why I said the opera clue wouldn’t do either.
DeleteAren’t all names “artificial” if you look hard enough?
DeleteI actually quite liked the clue for VANESSA - I love when I learn new trivia from a puzzle, and I find that sort of clue much more interesting than random people who I may or may not know (as long as they're crossed fairly).
ReplyDeleteI found this puzzle quite easy (one of my fastest Thursday solves to date), and I caught the theme pretty early, but I agree that it was a bit choppy, with isolated corners.
ReplyDeleteMalaika MThursday ... now there's a TONGUE TWISTER! Easy-Medium for me, but I didn't get that the languages are anagrams until I came here.
Overwrites:
1A: @Malaika spoof before FALSE
6D: Amok before AWay before AWRY
21D: gAther before CAUCUS
No WOEs, other than the foreign words in the theme clues.
For VANESSA I'd have used Ms. Williams, currently starring in The Devil Wears Prada musical in London.
I was actually pretty interested to learn that VANESSA is a name made up by an author. Otherwise, I didn’t enjoy the puzzle much. The top half was easy, the bottom half harder (for me). I often have trouble with the NW corner (where I always start) but today everything just filled itself in. Down south, my big problem was that I put in FinnISH instead of FLEMISH and remained loyal to it for a long time.
ReplyDeleteCould someone explain the clue for MADEMAN?
A Made Man is someone who has joined the Mafia (aka Family)
DeleteA made man is a man who has been formally inducted into a Mafia family (or similar). The term will be familiar to anyone who spent time watching The Sopranos.
Delete"Zichzelf" is clearly of Germanic origin and doesn't look Finnish at all. Hence FLEMISH.
DeleteThanks all, I appreciate learning about MADEMAN in the Mafioso context. And I did think that ‘zichzelf’ didn’t seem like it would be a Scandinavian language word but my brain couldn’t come up with any other F languages.
DeleteI thought “made man” referred to someone who had actually killed someone (in a rival “family”
DeleteJJK
DeleteHimself I was pedantic to look it up in Swedish
(Actually, Swedish is somewhat related to English)
han sialv = himself
@JJK Just as a small point: culturally, "Scandinavia" is usually considered to comprise Denmark, Norway, and Sweden (but not Finland). The languages of those three countries are part of the Germanic family, as is Dutch (and by extension, Flemish as a dialect of Dutch) -- although you're quite right that Dutch looks noticeably different from any of those Scandinavian languages.
DeleteFinnish is more different still! It is unrelated to any of those languages and indeed lies outside the superfamily of Indo-European languages. The manner in which Finnish is related to other languages is a matter of some dispute, but in one proposed grouping it is related to Estonian and Hungarian. I better not attempt to say much more, as I will quickly get out of my depth. I grew up being "informed" that it is also related to Turkish; this belief grew out of 19th century philology, but it seems this hypothesis is largely discarded nowadays. (To me, superficially, Finnish looks similar to Turkish, but looks can be deceiving!)
What's the "pot" in the IOUS clue referring to? I needed the theme to get CROATIAN and unlock the NW, which is the only section that really gave me trouble. I would've finished that corner a lot earlier with LOGOS but for whatever reason I wasn't picturing the Ferrari LOGO. I thought "prancing horse" and "golden bull" would turn out to be weird auto industry jargon.
ReplyDeletePoker pot
DeleteI read it as a reference to the pot for a poker game and an IOU (but plural).
DeleteThink poker game - cannot afford the ante so you add an IOU
DeletePot in a poker game. You throw in an IOU if the table thinks you’re good for it.
DeletePoker pot. I can’t pay table stakes in cash on hand so I owe you
DeleteThe pot in a card game. The ante. If you’re broke you might throw an Journe’s card into the pot. Although if you’re playing with a made man the iou could be problematic.
DeleteThe pot in a poker game
DeleteSomeone who has run out of $$ puts paper (i.e., an IOU) in the pot of a poker game
DeleteI haven't played serious poker for many years but I do recall that when we (waiters, bartenders, cooks, and busboys) would gather after work to try to double our tips (or forfeit them) in a friendly (?) game of poker, no IOUs were allowed. Can't meet the bet? Well, what's that watch you're wearing worth? Is that chain around your neck at least 14K?
DeleteI actually did once win a gold chain off a busboy -a Filipino kid - and felt bad about it. He came to me after the game and told me how his mother, who had gifted him the chain, would kill him. I returned it to him and told him he owed me a couple of after-shift drinks. He was good with that and actually ordered me the top-shelf stuff. Win win.
Easiest Thursday for a very long while. I was about to say that I didn't get the theme, but as I started to write this the penny dropped. Duh.
ReplyDelete63A - Liam Neeson’s sister-in-law, two awards shy of an EGOT.
ReplyDeleteFantastic write up, Malaika. You can cover any day of the week. Your insights and perspectives as both solver and constructor are a joy to read.
Un fanfarrón, un pícaro, un villano.
ReplyDeleteHappy Malaika MThursday! Oddly my experience was the opposite of Malaika's. I finished this in near record time and I thought the clue for Vanessa was an interesting bit of trivia.
This old poet wanted to ODE-enize this puzzle, but it's un-BARD-enizable. Bottom line here: That's not how you spell YOWZA.
And why aren't the TONGUE TWISTERS tongue twistery? They're just letter twistery.
People: 4
Places: 1
Products: 5
Partials: 7
Foreignisms: 1
--
Gary's Grid Gunk Gauge: 18 of 75 (24%)
Funny Factor: 2 😕
Tee-Hee: [Pot papers].
Uniclues:
1 Those suggesting a vote for a right-wing wacko would be a good idea.
2 Force keeping me in my La-Z-Boy given holy praise.
3 Go to class.
4 Many with a tendency toward attachments go outside.
1 BRASH FARCE ADS (~)
2 ANNOINTS INERTIA
3 DEAN TIP
4 PDF HERDS TAN (~)
My Fascinating Crossword Uniclue Keepsake from Last Year: Sound from a space frog. APOLLO RIBBIT.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hey. I don’t know if you JUST turned 61 (is that right?) but if so, belated Happy Bday you youngsta 🤣
Delete@Beezer 12:06 PM
DeleteThanks Beezer! Birthday was two days ago and YOWZA do I ever feel every minute of 61. Hats off to y'all who are cruising through these decades more gracefully than me.
The name "Wendy" was invented by J. M. Barrie in "Peter Pan." The IOUS refer, I think, to putting an IOU into the poker pot when you can't cover the bet you're making. MADEMAN, I think, refers to a Mafia family when you become a made man by killing someone on order.
ReplyDeleteHaha…I am so far below @Rex even on his phone, but did clock in at 14 minutes which was quite a bit below MY average, so I guess easy for me today? I really enjoyed figuring out which language…(um, F…French, Farsi…too short, could it be FLEMISH?) and I actually appreciated the use of the anagrams, which doesn’t happen often for me.
ReplyDeleteAnd I’m in the camp that really enjoyed the fact that VANESSA was actually “made up” by Swift. @Southside, this just goes to show that words AND names are “made up” to begin with and whether they gain traction and are adopted into common, everyday language just…depends!
I just realized I didn’t even consider Finnish in my F language…thank goodness.
Finished in under 9 minutes, so pretty easy Thursday by my standard. I got excited when I first saw the write-up and thought Rex took 20 minutes, only to find out it was a Malaika Thursday (no disrespect intended).
ReplyDeleteThere have been worse themes in the past, but it's been a while. September 15, 2016 springs to mind ... that was a puzzle so bad that @Lewis gave it a 'meh' review.
ReplyDeleteHand up for Redgrave or Williams, or even Carlton, if you are going for fame. No idea who Hudgens is. But I prefer the clue we got today.
Also, "painter Bell," or to make it easier, "Bloomsbury painter Bell."
DeleteWow, @kitshef…you kind of surprised me with your review. Haha…no “motive” behind it…truly just surprised.
DeleteFor JJK: In the Mafia, a MADE MAN is one who has "made the grade" as a member.
ReplyDeleteSam so far, in his three NYT puzzles has come up with themes where letters and words are re-arranged. His last puzzle (7/1/25) featured parenthetical words within parenthetical words, and his first (6/1/25) was, like today’s, based on anagrams, where, i.e., CHANGE OF HEART was clued [EARTH].
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if re-arranging will be his wordplay niche, but I’m all for it!
The theme today is elegant, and high props to Sam for being the first to come up with it. The reveal has “Hah!”-worthy wordplay punch. Thus, one terrific theme.
My favorite serendipity in the grid today is the answer with a meta feel: MADE MAN, which simply anagrams to MAN MADE, which is what this puzzle is!
Smooth, fun, original, and elegant – mwah! Thank you, Sam!
Essiest Thursday for a while
ReplyDeleteCount me in the “enjoyed learning something new camp” regarding VANESSA, though I think Malaika is right generally to be mindful of how women’s names are clued. (Redgrave or Williams would have been easier for me than Hudgens, but that’s a generational thing.)
ReplyDeleteThe theme was a good one, rightly challenging for a Thursday. I also tried LANGUAGE BARRIER for the revealer because I had the NGU and because “stumbling block” doesn’t quite fit with TONGUE TWISTER imo.
Hey All !
ReplyDeleteWell, shoot. Totally missed the anagram aspect, wondering how the Revealer made sense, in just translating words. That gives me a big old head slap. SHEESH.
As a matter of fact, had HerSELF and reLIANT in first. Dang. Sometimes I wonder about my ole brain...
Epic fail also in NE. Had ShEEp for STEER, HoRDe for HERDS, which begat OSCApe for OSCARS (originally had ESCAPES there), and MATho for MATTE. Apparently thought there was a new word for a photo out there.
Thanks to Malaika, I now see the whole Theme, and like the puz better than I did.
There's 44 Blockers, a quite large amount, as 38 is normal max. Fill good, working around all the Theme. Six Themers today, plus a Revealer. With Two Themers crossing said Revealer. YOWZAH.
Different type ThursTheme. Good to be different once in a while. OKRAS is suspect, though. Har.
Have a great Thursday!
Four F's
RooMonster
DarrinV
You can't have six okras. It just isn't done. You can have a mess of okra, or possibly a bait of okra, but adding an s to pluralize it is nuts
DeleteIt seemed like this would go bad at first. But I finished in 14 which is below my Thursday average. I need most letters for the languages but the crosses came easily. Nil instead of vim was my biggest problem. I knew 64 across was mafia related but with the L in nil i was lost.
ReplyDelete"Liam (Neeson)'s mother-in-law."
ReplyDeletesister in law
DeleteI actually thought the clue for VANESSA was great because I had no idea Swift invented the name. I can’t think of another example of a writer who invented a name that then became quite common. Anyone know of others?
ReplyDeleteI solved it without understanding the theme at all. Only after looking at the finished grid did I get that they were anagrams, and only after reading Malaika did I get the revealer, TONGUE TWISTERS. I had been trying to figure out how those odd words were actually tongue twisters.
Reading Rex’s comment that it takes him twice as long to solve on a phone makes me maybe finally understand how people like him can solve ANY NYT-sized puzzle in two minutes or whatever. I always solve on my phone so maybe I would halve my time if I did it on a laptop?
Off the top of my head , Wendy— invented by J.M. Barrie for Peter Pan.
DeleteI’m sure there plenty of others.
I wish I could blame my clumsy phone fingers for my slow times, but at 30-60 minutes for most Thursday puzzles, I fear something else is going on!
DeleteNot invented, as Madison has been around as a surname for a long time, but as a first name for a woman, I think it only exists as a result of the movie "Splash".
DeleteFlahpoosa. BOOM. did it. name your daughter that. it started here.
DeleteI solve on an iPad. On my phone, I’d still be working on Monday’s puzzle.
Delete@Malaika, just did a quick search at LL Bean’s website. Try the Women’s Wharf Street rain jacket. And thanks for the review this morning!
ReplyDeleteI would have done something around Redgrave. Never heard of Hudgens but that’s me.
ReplyDeleteOh, I was all excited that I did this in a faster time than Rex (and thought it was very kind and sporting of him to reveal his time). I should've known better. (Always good to see you Malaika, but why today and not yesterday?) Rex even popped by to say he found it one of the easiest Thursdays ever -- and it's sporting of him to announce his time here as well. That was my feeling: easy. I'm sure there will be a sharp division between solvers on this score, according to whether they are typically interested in "foreignisms" (hand up here) or typically repulsed (Southside?).
ReplyDeleteI somewhat object to FLEMISH, as that is not usually considered a language. Rather, it's a dialect of Dutch, spoken in the Flanders region of Belgium. Close enough for crosswords? You be the judge. Maybe it's hard to anagram language names as written in English; for example, good luck finding a French word that anagrams to "French".
Say -- do you know about the language wars in Belgium? It's mainly between the French speakers in the south and the Dutch speakers in the north. For example, during the 60s and 70s things came to a head in the town of Leuwen (or Leuven), where the local population spoke Dutch but the classes at the university were exclusively taught in French, and there was a lot of opposition to this from the students. Eventually they relented and renamed the university, where now the classes are taught in Dutch, and created a new university town more in the south called Louvain-la-Neuve where the university classes are taught in French. It's a bit of a mess, and the brief account I'm writing might be slightly garbled as well because I'm writing in a hurry, but here.
Anyway, I quite liked the puzzle. Malaika is exactly right about how crosswords should be viewed as puzzles, things to be figured out, and not trivia questionnaires. And so it was. This puzzle was a little too segmented to really get my whoosh going on, but I enjoyed its straightforward theme, which didn't feel as gimmicky or contrived as some do.
Oh yeah: Vanessa Redgrave. She's been in a bunch of stuff, for example The Devils (1971) and Howard's End (1992). I didn't know her name was, literally, made up (hi again to Southside).
D'oh! I misrepresented the nature of the theme. So make that "find an English word that anagrams to "French" " (followed of course by translating that word into French to construct the clue, but that would be the easy part).
DeleteYes, I agree an “easy” Thursday…and maybe it was partially due to “wheelhouse.” I would say that based on a river cruise through Belgium and the Netherlands that Flemish seemed to be referred to as a “language” but I’m not a linguist so I therefore proclaim “close enough for crosswords”!
DeleteCoraline is goated
ReplyDeleteEasy Thursday, quite fast for me actually! I didn’t even think about the theme until I got the last theme clue (VALIANT) and then I laughed out loud to myself.
You can buy an iconic yellow raincoat from Helly Hansen :)
ReplyDeleteI liked the theme and understood it pretty quickly, but still struggled with this one and finished with a time almost 40% longer than average. Knowing "they're looking for languages and anagrams" doesn't help me figure out either one, and since the theme permeates every corner of the puzzle, I couldn't get purchase anywhere.
ReplyDeleteI’m proud to say that I hung in there with this puppy, for a couple of reasons. I wanted to figure out the reveal, which I was able to do via the crosses, but didn’t get the anagram “aha” until dissecting it post-solve (which was actually pretty cool). I also suspected (actually more “hoped” than suspected) that they would keep the crosses reasonable given that the theme answers would initially look like gibberish to many people. So all in all, more fun than a usual Thursday for me.
ReplyDeleteI’ll show my age and go with Vanessa Redgrave as the answer to our host’s query. My second choice would be Vanessa Williams. I don’t know very many details about either - I’m going purely by name recognition (I would have totally spaced on Malaika‘s “easy” clues for example).
I loved the clue for Vanessa, a refreshing change from the predictable movie star clues. Overall, I thought the theme was very clever and original!
ReplyDeleteNot sure what "rarely" means in the discussion regarding cluing a woman's name in the puzzle. If I've counted correctly, in today's puzzle there are 4 proper names, all women. Three of the four are clued simply by referencing their occupation.
ReplyDeleteI've certainly not studied the issue, though, so it could be that over the 83 history of the NYT puzzle, it is the case that women are often clued in relation to a man, but it certainly didn't apply to today's puzzle.
[Language in which “laitingpay” is PLAITING]
ReplyDeleteNice one, @Lewis.
DeleteGood one!
DeleteI really enjoyed this puzzle and I GREATLY enjoyed your write-up, Malaika! In answer to your question, the first name that popped into my head was Virginia Wolff‘s older sister Vanessa. She was a painter and didn’t get enough credit. Hard to be seen next to a luminary. But like other commenters, I found it interesting that the name was invented by Taylor (sorry Siri it’s Jonathan) Swift.
ReplyDeleteI know it probably wouldn't work as a crossword clue, but the first thing I think of when I see the name Vanessa is a children's book titled "Say Hello, Vanessa" by Marjorie Sharmat. It's about a shy little girl who has trouble making friends. I'm a retired children's Librarian, and I often recommended it.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say the daughter from Who's the Boss is a great Vanessa, until I realized her name is Samantha. So, all advice from me should be taken with a grain of salt. I think the most famous contemporary Vanessa is Bayer from SNL, but she's probably not quite a household name. Also TIL that there's a Vanessa Trump who was married to Don Jr. and is now with Tiger Woods? Wikipedia rabbit hole, here I come!
ReplyDeleteYou can buy a lovely yellow raincoat at an outlet store that carries all the traditional marine wear in Honfleur, France. Several brands to choose from, shouldn't be more than €40. I only offer this suggestion as current tariffs make the trip a good economic choice.
ReplyDeleteOKRAS? No.
ReplyDeleteI wondered about that too.
DeleteIn the end a relatively easy puzzle but with lots of “erasures” on the screen. First though, hand up for the Redgrave family—would have been totally stumped by Malaika’s clue. Fun to learn the name is a Swiftie. Initiated just about every false start mentioned in this blog so far and more—FAkes for FALSE, gAther for CAUCUS, etc etc etc, but it was like fog lifting as I moved down the squares. Except for parsing CYNIC—had to keep going back to that one until the light dawned.
ReplyDeleteFlew through this one fairly easily. Also had spoof for a while, the but the downs fixed that quickly (ALOHA was a given). Once I got the theme, which took a minute, then sorting out which letter went where to spell a common word was at least moderately entertaining.
ReplyDeleteAs for VANESSA, put me in the camp that enjoyed learning the trivia. It's one of the perks of doing the puzzle everyday - learning something new. Redgrave would be a runner up. But, for what it's worth, I would continue to write the more interesting clue, whoever it may reference. If you can make it interesting and right an inequality (real or perceived) in the process, then have at it. "Actress Hudgens of High School Musical" does neither IMO. 13:42
Without doubt, the easiest Thursday ever. I was filling in letters without even looking at the clues. Didn’t even try to translate the foreign words, nor did I notice the letter jumbles at first. But that did make it easier to finish the themers. It’s a pretty slick trick that the words and languages are anagrams of each other, but I didn’t really like the revealer. I get the implication - because the letters are twisted around - but they’re not TONGUE TWISTERS in the true sense of the term. But as Joaquin once said … close enough for crosswords … or something like that.
ReplyDeleteMalaika: I have to say I’ve never noticed women’s names being clued as connected to men, but I will certainly be looking for that in the future. I would’ve clued Vanessa with “Actress Redgrave“ because I am of a different generation and she’s the most famous one I know. Or Vanessa Williams, a fairly well-known Miss America/actress. I wouldn’t get either one of your clues because I’ve never heard of Vanessa Hudgens. And since you asked, my general feedback would be to avoid using too many proper names. I’ve done your puzzles and don’t recall you were guilty of that; it’s just my personal pet peeve.
Extensive research (you know, a minute or two online) reveals that Vanessa is associated with the Greek root for butterfly. So a nice clue might be: "Woman's name associated with butterflies."
ReplyDeleteAnd you are the only one who would get the answer!
DeleteI'd probably forget.
DeletePer xwordinfo.com, VANESSA has appeared in the NYTXW 31 times over the years. It has been clued as a specific woman 19 times. In its first appearance, Sun Feb 7, 1943, it was clued "Butterfly genus".
DeleteFortunately, I’m fluent in Croatian, Flemish, and Latvian, so it was an easy puzzle for me. Actually, that’s not true, and I didn’t get the anagram thing at all, and I found the puzzle very difficult, or so I thought. But then I did it much faster than my usual times. Go figure!
ReplyDeleteRaincoat- The Great Outdoors Women’s Rain Trench is nice $175 on sale right now
ReplyDeletePut me in the camp where I didn’t think anything of Vanessa beyond an interesting bit of trivia and more lively than cluing a rela person but very thankful that Ivana was not clued in the nature of her relationship to a male….
ReplyDeleteTeam SPOOF, for sure
ReplyDeleteThis is what I get for going to bottom and scrolling up. I asked Justin below, but I have to agree that “spoof” seems more apt.
DeleteI never noticed the anagrams until I came here. I like anagrams, but somehow never thought about them here--whereas now I can't look at FLEMISH/HIMSELF without seeing it immediately. Go figure.
ReplyDeleteOKRAS is an anagram of ROAKS and SKOAR, but that's the only thing it has going for it. I'm dreading the day we will get a puzzle with HAYS in it--oh, actually, that works as a presidential surname, I'll have to think of another example.
Just for the record, Malaika had no objection to the clue for Vanessa, just said it reminded her of something a couple of people had said to her, which she did not take a position on.
The two down themers crossing the revealer was a nice touch, and probably hard to pull off.
Spaceballs is very much not a farce. That made my blood boil.
ReplyDeleteWhat would call it? I’m curious. Spoof or parody? Maybe FARCE has a bit of a different meaning?
DeleteLanguage in which "Krippe" is MANGER.
ReplyDeleteI Flemished this in record time! Oops, I apparently made the mistake of doing it in the wrong danged language.
I once knew a VALIANT LATVIAN who was FLEMISH HIMSELF but wore a CROATIAN RAINCOAT, so this puzzle really brought back some great memories. Plus, it was a really, really great theme idea. Thanks, Sam Brody.
I'm all for representation, but learning that Jonathan Swift invented the name VANESSA was my favorite thing about this puzzle.
ReplyDeleteMe too !
DeleteI saw the anagram gimmick early and had fun finding the three languages and their anagrams. That wasn't very hard because the fill was easy.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed this puzzle! Once I got the theme, I tried to see if I could come up with a plausible answer to be an anagram of LATVIAN without any letters. I could not (NAIL VAT???). The short fill felt clean, which made a huge difference because there was a lot of it in all thse tiny corners. Only exception being OKRAS and SLRS, ah well. VIM is an awesome 3-letter answer. Hands up ✋ for team spoof. Also hands up for my new expansion team rIP/IrANA. Irana didn't sound that real to me, but I don't keep up with my socialites and tabloids, so it seemed plausible enough. Fun puzzle!
ReplyDeleteI thought cluing Jeez Louise for Yowzah was just wrong. Yowzah is somewhat akin to "That's awesome!" Jeez Louise is the opposite sentiment. It's more like "Awww , that sucks."
ReplyDeleteWay, way too easy imo
ReplyDeleteAt 20A, "Kind of butter in beauty products:" SHEA, brought back good memories for me of SHEA Stadium. I was at Bunning's perfect game, the All-Star game with Johnny Callison's devastating HR off of Dick Radatz, and a doubleheader vs SF in which Orlando Cepeda stole home, there was a triple play, and the second game lasted 23 innings. My mom used to let me schlep out from Brooklyn on the subway alone in my teens. I kept disappointing her by making it home safely. (That was a joke.)
ReplyDeleteNot to disparage Jonathan Swift, but how can he claim to have invented a name? How can anyone know whether a person named "Vanessa" existed previously, somewhere...anywhere? Who keeps records of first names?
ReplyDeleteTake a Quick Look at the next web browser tab over and ask google. He took a pet form of her first name (Esther Vanhomrigh) and attached it to the first part of her last name. Even if someone somewhere came up with this also, he certainly invented it and I assume popularized it.
Delete@Anonymous 11:00. We tend to go with published records. Someone may have, 50 or even a hundred years before Swift, named their daughter VANESSA but they didn't put it in a novel or an essay or any other published material. Swift did.
Delete@Malaika darlin: U asked about other lingo words that mighta been puzthemers. A couple come to M&A's mind:
ReplyDelete* Shingle is SHINGLE in ENGLISH.
* Krippe is MANGER in GERMAN.
* Svischade is SWISHED in SWEDISH.
* Clarifies is PERMUTES in TRUMPESE.
Anyhoo ... Fun puztheme idea. Enjoyed it and its Jaws of Thursdayness and its E/W symmetry.
staff weeject pick: WEE.
some fave trimmins: The "nabs" collection. The "Jeez Louise" collection. COOKIE. CAUCUS.
Thanx for the lingo bingo, Mr. Brody dude.
Masked & Anonymo3Us
... and now, for another Jaw-fest of a puz ...
Stumpy Stumper: "Jaws of Themelessness #27" - 9x7 12 min. themeless runt puzzle:
**gruntz**
M&A
https://www.westmarine.com/helly-hansen-women-s-kirkwall-ii-raincoat-P021228382.html
ReplyDeleteThis was all very nice, except that Flemish is not a language.
ReplyDeleteYou and @tht are in agreement but I will say that in certain areas around there with informational placards, Flemish is included. Btw…I have no skin in the game.
DeleteI mean, Ana de Armas is right there in the puzzle…
ReplyDeleteAlso Nia Long
DeleteI'm not sure about in real life, but in the world of crossword puzzles I enjoy getting faked out - like today. I spent some time wondering what made the words kabanica and zichzelf hard to pronounce, in a tongue-twisting way. And then I got to LATVIAN - VALIANT, which suddenly turned TONGUE into "language" and TWISTER into "anagram." What a dynamite reveal!
ReplyDeleteAlso liked: FALSE x ALARM, the SHEESH-YOWZAH pair, learning about VANESSA. Do-over CAnvaS before CAUCUS.
Yolo?
ReplyDeleteYou Only Live Once.
DeleteYou Only Live Once
DeleteI love when I can puzzle out the gimmick and it helps me solve the puzzle. This was the opposite of that, however I guess I'm happy that not getting the gimmick didn't prevent me from solving it.
ReplyDeleteMiranda was supposedly invented by Shakespeare.
ReplyDeleteAnyone say CROATIAN RAINCOAT 3x fast after filling in TONGUE TWISTER? Certainly not me... that would have been, uh, silly. >_>
ReplyDeleteFun puzzle, and nice Malaika Mwrite-up. In Rafa's themeless Sunday, PETER was clued as "Fizzle (out)". It's a good way to cut down on the PPP count. I haven't noticed any difference in that type of clueing for men vs. women, but I'd give Shortz the benefit of the doubt.
Language Barrier themes: Monday, December 12, 2016 & Wednesday, August 13, 2014.
I hope no one phlips me the phinger over this, but I'm phlegmatic over whether Flemish is a language for these purposes. Seems close enough for crosswords.
ReplyDelete"Phlegmatic" is a "humorous" word to be using here [nyuk nyuk nyuk]. I guess I can afford to be sanguine about it myself.
DeleteNatick, to the max for me, at 30A&D. I’ve heard both YOWZAH and wOWZAH, and You Only Live Once and We Only Live Once both make sense. I went with the correct answer, deciding that a daredevil is more likely to be a singular type. Enjoyable puzzle, thanks, Sam.
ReplyDeleteDoh!... I too completely missed the anagram trick. I think it makes a pretty neat theme. Possible addition: "Language in which 'Krippe' is MANGER".
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if I like the repeated repeated clues very much (ie "Nab", "Jeez Louise").
I've not been keeping careful track, but it feels like they've been doing that more and more. Yesterday it was for TRIO and HAGS.
DeleteVanessa Bell, Bloomsbury group artist and sister of Virginia Woolf
ReplyDelete[Language in which “rolulu” is PERSONATE]
ReplyDeleteOh, neat! (But what a funny invention, that word.)
DeleteAt least IVANA and VANESSA weren’t clued by their related male counterparts.
ReplyDeleteNot knowing Vanessa Hudgens, it doesn’t help to add Zac Efron, who I do know. Sorry to know a male and not a female here, but I know him from places other than HSM. I always chuckle knowing that older NYT Xwords would have clues like “woman’s name” and leave it at that. At least we get to learn something, today something very interesting.
I know Rex accuses constructors of using Wikipedia as their source for clues, and it seems apt today.
Pronunciation
/vəˈnɛsə/
Gender
Female
Origin
Meaning
coined from Esther Vanhomrigh (Van + Es → Vanessa)
Other names
Related names
Vanesa (Spanish), Vanessza (Hungarian), Wanesa (Polish), Vanasia
It was invented by the Anglo-Irish writer Jonathan Swift for Esther Vanhomrigh, whom Swift had met in 1708 and whom he tutored. The name was created by taking "Van" from Vanhomrigh's last name and adding "Essa", a pet form of Esther.
I found this very easy, but it took me until the last themer to use figure it out and use it to help solve - my favorite theme experience!
Snark Warning: For all the spoof-ers, there is this thing you can do called looking quickly at the down clue, in this case S (spoof) vs F (farce) is easily decided by the FALSE moustache.
I have to agree with the previous commenter about YOWZAH - all definitions say it is for surprise or excitement, the opposite of GEEZ LOUISE. I got it easily: perhaps imagining being surprised by something really boneheaded?
VANESSA = Barber opera
ReplyDeleteNormally solve at night but, as I was feeling ill, I elected to retire early and tackle this in the morning. Odd to try to kick-start my aging brain first thing upon waking.
ReplyDeleteI was amazed at how my solving process resembled Malaika’s, though I can’t agree with her take on VANESSA. As much as I admire Ms. Redgrave, I’d rather have the Johnathan Swift clue. As a few others have noted, Wendy is also a name invented by a famous author: J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan).
Appreciated JAE’s comment about “a clever twist on anagrams”. If you haven’t heard me rant about this before … I don’t like anagrams. But today’s twist was kind of nice.
SPOILER ALERT! but I think I’m posting late enough that most people will already have worked this out. I also don’t like pig latin. But I did think @Lewis’ comment at 9:03 am was pretty funny.
My apologies to Malaika re the VANESSA thing. She said VANESSA Hudgens and various others cited VANESSA Redgrave and I had trouble separating them. I still think the Swift reference was better.
DeleteThis one was pretty easy after I got the anagrammatical nature of the theme. Didn't seem hard at all. Shout-out to my Latvian-born grandfather of blessed memory; I would call him a drosmigs guy. In other words, a mensch.
ReplyDeletegreat puzzle a native 'tongue' with letters made into English words what's not to love -that's a double entendre I suppose and well done Sam!
ReplyDeleteSolved in 9:45. Never got the theme. It happens sometimes on a Thursday.
ReplyDeleteMalaika -- I've never explicitly thought about how women's names in NYT puzzles are clued, but when I read the VANESSA clue, I did feel a brief flash of disappointment, and then after reading your comment, I thought, "I wouldn't be surprised if it's true that proper names for women are more often clued in relation to men than vice versa." So I must have had this same thought implicitly at some point??
ReplyDeleteI 100% agree with the comments that the fact about Swift inventing the name was a fun bit of trivia to learn. And if we lived in a world where sexism / racism / misogyny / etc. didn't exist, I think I could have just delighted in the clue, and I don't think I would have felt that flash of disappointment. But the fact is we DO live in a world where all these isms exist, and so it's easy (at least for me) to see things as bias even when it's not there. That's the most insidious thing about implicit bias -- it's actually pretty difficult to identify it in any individual action.
Anyway. Thanks for bringing this up, Malaika! Really thought-provoking question, I've very much enjoyed reading through the commentary.
I agree. @Malaika…I think I “missed” what you meant with your comment…don’t pay attention to me…I can (unfortunately) skim…in a way. For whatever reason I didn’t think of the clue for VANESSA in that way, because I suppose I give the first part of the 1700s a pass? Or maybe I was just a bit “taken” with fact that the name was “made up.”
DeleteI’m not a high-level crossword solver. I sometimes fail with the end-of-the-week puzzles. But I’ll say that my experience was different from Malaika’s. This was the easiest Thursday I’ve ever done.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a clever theme but the reveal seemed to be wide of the mark. Like several other commenters, I'm not seeing how an anagram is a TONGUE TWISTER.
ReplyDeleteI gave the side eye to 21A "Skeptical sort" for CYNIC. A skeptic is someone who says "Maybe but let's see the evidence" while a CYNIC says "Absolutely not. Been down this road of treachery and deceit before and I ain't buying your faked sincerity and know you are trying to take advantage of me with your self-serving hidden agenda." Or something along those lines.
The pairing of a name of a language (TONGUE) with an anagram of the name (= TWISTER of the name). Like LATVIAN with the anagram VALIANT.
DeleteOne of those days when I have to come to this blog to have the theme explained to me, after grinding through it without twigging the anagrams part. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteFor VANESSA? My clue would be "First Black Miss America ___ Williams" or "Soul Food star Williams"
ReplyDeleteI’m no good at anagrams, so I was glad to learn that here. Otherwise this crossword was easy for me. Yesterday’s minute cryptic anagram was hard!
ReplyDeleteBloomsbury artist Bell.
ReplyDeleteOn the Vanessa cluing, how about: First Black Miss America, Williams?
ReplyDelete@Malaika look at Rainsisters for a raincoat!!
ReplyDelete@Malaika, earlier this week I was searching for an “old school” yellow rubber raincoat like I had as a child and adored back in the late 50s. I found the Coraline design on Amazon. Not what I wanted, but it may help you.
ReplyDeleteStarted off with several FLUBS: spoof for FARCE, style for RANCH (oh, that “dressing!”), Amok then Away for AWRY, had STEER for HERDS (my farmer clients always used STEER as both singular and plural), wOWZA before YOWZA and gather before CAUCUS. Corrections were quick and crosses fair, but clearly I did not have a full “wavelength visa” to be fully admitted to the constructor’s inner sanctum today.
In fact, I failed to understand the theme i til the very end. I focused on the foreign words not the “see whatever” instructions, and I bounced around a bit while solving. The FLEMISH “zichzelf” so like the German “sich selbst” reinforced my belief that the theme was focused on the foreign words in the clues. It wasn’t until LATVIAN that I woke up. I was still cogitating on the theme at that point and got a wakeup notice from my cranial “librarian,” who said, “Hey you! VALIANT anagrams to LATVIAN!”
At that point, I was still thinking about my LATVIAN piano teacher at Capital University in Columbus, the late Verena Dambrans. She passed earlier this year at 94. It was she who suggested after 5 years of study that I try an instrument because the size and shape of my hands was going to make progress on piano a struggle. I switched to flute and found she was right. My brother continued to study with her throughout his life and played with chamber groups and as a piano duet for many years.
I found this easy for a Thursday but had a lot of fun. YOWZAH bugged me a bit, as I don't think of this as Jeez Louise work, more like an "Oh cool!!!" word. But that's about it, this was a a pretty joyous romp. Thank you Sam!
ReplyDeleteI got the whole puzzle and never noticed the anagrams. I thought they were merely definitions of the subject word in the stated language up until the time I looked here.
ReplyDeleteI take the point about cluing women's names without referring to men they are associated with. Yes. But, at the same time, I didn't know that Swift invented the name Vanessa. That's kinda cool!
ReplyDeleteLoved this puzzle! The most satisfying aha moment in a very long time. Bravo, Brody.
ReplyDeleteKept trying to figure out what the second half of the clue had to do with TWISTER - either the party game or the weather phenomenon. Wasn’t until I was completely finished and looked at all three themes again trying to puzzle out what the words had in common that it clicked. Good puzzle!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVanessa: Kirby, of late one of four.
ReplyDelete