Literary Hun king / WED 5-29-13 / Classic model train brand / Biblical progenitor of Edomites / Producer of seven U2 albums / NFL team with mascot Swoop / Student grant named for senator

Wednesday, May 29, 2013

Constructor: Gary Cee

Relative difficulty: Medium



THEME: ___ in ___ — phrases following that pattern show up in the grid as intersecting words, such that the first word in the phrase is literally "in" (that is, intersects) the last word in the phrase

Word of the Day: Ronan TYNAN (34D: Tenor Ronan ___) —

Ronan Tynan (born 14 May 1960) is a singer in the classical Irish style.
Irish audiences recognise him as a member of The Irish Tenors, while American audiences consider him most famous for his renditions of "God Bless America" at Yankee Stadium during important New York Yankees games, such as Opening Day, nationally-televised games, the last game at the old Yankee Stadium, and playoff games. (wikipedia)
• • •

I found this one fussy and rather unpleasant to solve. I get that the intersecting words form a visually literal representation of the phrase that they're part of, and I acknowledge that that is indeed clever. Still, as a solving exercise, having to work out a lot of niddling 4x4s, with their "with this"s and "see that"s, is not my idea of a good time. I should add that "TAKE in VAIN" is a reeeeeeal outlier, thematically, as it does not stand alone as a phrase At All (where the other theme answers all very much do). But my feelings today are mostly just a matter of taste—I didn't enjoy the puzzle that much, but I do think it's well put-together.


Theme answers:
  • HAT in HAND
  • JUST in CASE
  • BEST in SHOW
  • NEXT in LINE
  • LIE in WAIT
  • TAKE in VAIN
  • SNOOZE in EXCESS
  • TACO in YODA

With the exception of ATLI (ugh) (54D: Literary Hun king), the fill is mostly good, *especially* considering the thematic strain that it's under (those theme answers are made up of very short words, but they're Everywhere). I got hung up in various places, mostly toward the bottom, for no particularly good reasons. I had something like a 5-second blank-stare moment when looking at 50D: What a gourmand eats to, seeing EX-, knowing that the answer was easy, feeling it, but ... not retrieving it. It was like my brain was doing one of those rainbow spinning wheels of death (Mac users know what I'm talking about). And then I was back online. EDIFY also wouldn't come (43A: Give moral guidance), despite seeming obvious in retrospect. Didn't know TYCO (40D: Classic model train brand). Knew TYNAN, but not well, so needed crosses to verify. Needed -RVENT + a few seconds to come up with FERVENT (44D: Impassioned). Nailed "SATIN DOLL"(37D: Duke Ellington classic), but then second-guessed it when the only "gavel wielder" I could imagine was a judge ([Gavel wielder's word] = "RISE"??? No ... "SOLD!")


I just got a little LOGY toward the bottom of the grid (57D: Feeling sluggish). Time ended up normal (5-ish), so I don't feel that bad.
    Signed, Rex Parker, King of CrossWorld

    100 comments:

    Anonymous 12:06 AM  

    @Rex - I think you made a mistake in your write-up. It's LOGY in SNOOZE, not SNOOZE in EXCESS. See, you're LOGY if you need to, or just have, SNOOZEd.. Screw it, no joke here.

    jae 12:10 AM  

    Easy-medium for me.  Cute theme, smooth grid, a bit of zip...GO TO POT, SATIN DOLL, INIGO (I still prefer Montoya), SITH and YODA...what more would you want from a Wed.  

    Gimmes that I only know from doing a whole lot of crosswords: INIGO (Jones not Montoya), DONAT, ARA, SEGA (never got into video games), EPODE, OTOS.

    WOEs: TITI (if I knew it I've forgotten it),  ATLI (know the Hun just not that version), TYNAN. 

    Nice one Gary, liked it!

    Sarah 12:13 AM  

    Could do without RUBIN in the center of the grid. Don't see any connection to the theme.

    Naticks; maybe a couple, but I have a feeling me not knowing ENO outside of crosswords might just be me.

    okanaganer 12:23 AM  

    SNOOZE in EXCESS... very funny, Rex.

    One of my fastest Wed's yet! My only error was at the RUB IN / TITI crossing where I had RUB ON and, well, TOTI monkey sounded just dandi to me.

    --Begin nitpick:
    Once again my choice of fields of education leads me a bit astray. In my architecture experience at school and in practice, a SPEC and a DETAIL are quiet different things. An "architect's detail, for short" could be ELEV, SECT, or many others, but not SPEC.

    It's like the puzzle a few months ago where the clue was "projecting corner" and I said "Aha!; finally architecture comes in handy!", and typed in QUOIN. But the supposed answer was some ridiculous spelling variant I had never seen or heard of.
    --end nitpick.

    Davis 12:39 AM  

    Mark me down as another RUB oN ToTI victim. TITI is a terrible check word when both RUB oN and RUB IN would satisfy the clue.

    I also stumbled at INIGO and TYNAN, both of which were unfamiliar to me--I had all the crosses but DIN, yet I still had to stop and think before I could bring that together. Hrm.

    This wasn't a bad puzzle or anything, but for some reason it just didn't give me any joy. Ah well, can't love them all.

    retired_chemist 12:50 AM  

    Like yesterday, much stuff to know. But, also like yesterday, a lot of it is general knowledge that one hears in the real world.

    Things I know ONLY from crosswords: ENO, TITI, ARA, ATLI. But I do know them, after two or three years doing NYT crosswords. TYNAN and DONAT were new to me, although Robert DONAn sounded right and almost was. That was my bĂȘte noire today. Could. Not. See. STYLES from SNYLES - wanted to do something like SCYTHES. Eventually, got it, after a minute plus checking the whole d**n puzzle when I knew good and well that was my error. Anyway, will remember DONAT. TYNAN maybe not so much.

    Time to go SNOOZE in EXCESS. I do not however REJOICE in DECEIT.

    Thanks, Mr. Cee. I had a lot more fun than Rex did.



    Ara Creole Metaphors 1:43 AM  

    Hand up for RUBoN/ToTI. Drat!

    And ret-Chem, right with you on SnYLES for an eternity till I could suss out clue meaning.

    Thought there was a mini mini theme TWOBALL, NINEIRON thought it would have been cute if he snuck in another sort of arbitrary number thing like FOURTIME
    for champions....

    I liked BROOD bec it was a plural without an S that was tricky (for me)

    Good to see LENNY Bruce...so much more than comical, but nice that he's remembered.

    And nice to see a Yiddish word used as it's used!
    No Schlmiel vs Schlemazzel nitpick here!

    I don't know my TACO from my TYCO or TYNAN from DONAT, nor ATLI and ARA...but I will never call a puzzle "disgusting" if I live to be 199. Still annoyed how one wildly misinformed solvers derailed discussion yesterday of one of the most fun puzzles ever !

    Wished the word had been SNOOcE, so Gary CEE coulda gotten his name in, just to bug those who like to scream narcissist at every opportunity!

    LOGY feel onomanopoetic (sp?) (Too sleepy to look up correct spelling!)

    John Child 1:57 AM  

    Really fun for a Wednesday, and took me quite a lot longer than average.

    If you OGLE the GAP too much, you might get EDIF(y)ied by a slap!

    Benko 2:23 AM  

    Didn't know TYNAN either.
    I remember TYCO from their remote controlled cars, not their trains.

    chefwen 2:27 AM  

    Really wanted Indian for 15A as I am making friends Chicken Tikka Masala, Naan fried bread and Kheere ka Raita for dinner Friday night. Oh well, Creole works too. Next time!

    BEST IN SHOW is one of the funniest movies I have seen. I'm sure @Ret-Chemist will agree with me.

    Favorite TACO is an Al Pastor.

    Good one Gary Cee, I loved it! I'm a lot more easy to please than our fearless leader.

    Anonymous 2:50 AM  

    Agree. Monday was great. Tuesday was meh.

    -Brennan

    Anonymous 2:52 AM  

    Take the lord's name in vain? Doesn't seem like an outlier to me...

    syndy 3:02 AM  

    Tynan-big goofy looking fella with a gorgeous voice!Hand up for RUBON/TOTI and ATLu Apparently Attila shows up in the Norse EDDA as ATLI.The cross referncing was annoying until I figured it out,then it went down fairly smoothly.My pug must be a gourmand-she CHOWS in EXCESS

    jae 3:22 AM  

    You know, I went over the grid about three times looking for stuff I only knew from crosswords and I somehow missed ENO. Sorry about that.

    r.alphbunker 3:25 AM  

    Also finished with RUBoN/ToTI. Is it possible that titi is onomatopoetic?

    Liked the theme and once I got it I did not have to search too far for the other word referenced in the clue.

    Cluing STYLES with {Doesn't merely cut} was inspired.

    r.alphbunker 4:10 AM  

    @Carolea

    Thanks for the WSJ cryptic clue yesterday. It was fun figuring it out. How long have you been attempting cryptics? I find that the ahas are much stronger than those experienced in American puzzles but so are the wtfs.

    @Bob Kerfuffle
    AFAIK cryptics always have unchecked letters. I would guess about half the letters are unchecked. It seems wasteful to me!

    I have capitalized the checked letters in the answer I posted yesterday: TiMeSpRiNt. The clue was {Employee retiring soon? Measure how long 8 takes} I am assuming that this is a double meaning clue and not a charade.

    BTW, I am in England with my wife visiting her elderly aunt. The aunt used "kerfuffle" yesterday. It was the first time I have heard it in the wild.

    syndy 4:10 AM  

    Ronan Tynan Mind Boggling!

    Keith H 4:54 AM  
    This comment has been removed by the author.
    Keith H 4:55 AM  

    @r.alph

    I can't see the puzzle, so I don't know what 8d or 8a are, but TIME SERVED seems plausible (not in the penal sense but in the apprenticeship sense). Moreso if one of the 8 answers has to do with a tennis player or wait staff or the like. However, it would change your checked N to an E.

    I don't do cryptics though, so I could be completely off base. If so, please go easy on me :)

    loren muse smith 6:22 AM  

    I had a big dnf owing to:
    -not knowing INIGO, TYNAN, SEGA, or SITH
    -@Acme and @retired_chemist – I had “shreds”and “zed” for STYLES and ZEE and never ever considered any other words.

    I liked this one more than OFL, too. Go figure. Because I’m obsessed with these damn things, I outlined all of the theme crossers - the utter symmetry is beautiful. Y’all should take a look if you didn’t notice.

    @jae – this has to be a little offshoot area of our spelling adventures: I always consider HANDL, I guess because of Haydn? Or Beethovn?

    It’s remarkable how participating here helps one grow as a solver! As I watched the grid print out, I did a quick mental check that it was indeed Wednesday and not Thursday, and then was reassured when I saw that the WENT TO POT and SATIN DOLL were 9’s.

    @i’m not anonymous. just really shy and @JMH from yesterday – I’ll look for more posts from you!

    Thanks, Gary. YO DA man. Nice Wednesday.

    dmw 6:54 AM  

    Will must have loved this one. The theme answers were right out of one of his weekend morning shows.

    Thoracic 7:13 AM  

    Toti/Rubon for me too. Found the rest of it pretty straightforward, though I too thought the gavel wielded must be a judge and felt SCYTHE just had to go in there. I have recently stopped worrying so much about my finishing times and started just appreciating the puzzles for their attributes. Much more rewarding, though a little hit to the ego!

    John V 7:39 AM  

    What @ret_chem said, plus wanted SCALPS for 70A.

    Also, see, I wrote on Handel, right, by my lousy writing made the L look like a C, leading to much wasted time sussing out RELOAD.

    Liked the puzzle, fun, tad easy for a Wednesday. Thanks, Gary Cee!

    Jeremy Mercer 7:55 AM  

    Another TOTI / RUB ON here. And, @okanaganer, your observation is much appreciated. The Times puzzle brings together many people who love words and language and it's important to push for precision from constructors ...

    Susan McConnell 7:57 AM  

    I liked this one very much. In retrospect, I see what Rex is saying about TAKE in VAIN, but as I was solving it felt right and gave me no pause. Only nasty bit was ATLI, which, even though I have seen it several times before, I just do not like to have to use.

    Z 7:57 AM  

    The worst thing about RUB IN is that it is so easy to clue RUBIN. You could go with Rick, famous for producing all kinds of records, or Jerry and '60's anti war protesting to name two. The second worse thing about RUB IN is that the IN isn't part of the theme, so I went with oN thinking IN would be a no-no.

    @Sarah - I knew ENO b.c. because he worked with Robert Fripp and David Bowie way back when, before U2 and before Microsoft. But I am in the minority here as most of the folk know him the same way they know erns and Olafs and Olavs.

    Hand up for ShredS/ZEd before STYLES/ZEE.

    More PELL grants fewer student loans!

    Milford 8:26 AM  

    This was a pretty tough Wednesday, with not knowing LOGY, DONAT, non-Montoya INIGO, or TYNAN. Hand up for my DNF being due to RUB oN/ ToTI.

    I tried many violent words at 70A - STab AT, SlicES, SeverS- before I got the play on words for STYLES.

    I actually liked the theme and the detangling of the crosses - different and fun.

    I have to laugh looking at 40A, but I can be immature at times.

    Cool fact - CHOWS have black tongues. Love it. BEST IN SHOW is one of my favorite movies, too.

    I don't know about you all, but I plan on going to @chefwen's for dinner on Friday.

    Carola 8:27 AM  

    Neat idea, different. @loren - I also circled the crossing entries. Me, too, with ToTI and RUBoN.

    Yesterday there was a little group of us who haven't ever watched The Simpsons. I wonder how many here besides me have had occasion to read the Lay of ATLI. It's not a SNOOZE.

    @r.alphbunker - I've been working away at cryptics for years but still find them very tough. I usually can finish the ones in the Sunday Times and the Saturday Wall St. Journal over a few days/sessions. I agree about the satisfaction! And also the lingering ???

    jackj 8:41 AM  

    Another day, another puzzle, another puzzler (or two) and yesterday’s MAORI has morphed into TITI while yesterday’s ARP is being played, (grudgingly), by ATLI.

    Grousing opportunities are everywhere just waiting to be elevated in a controversial game of “Trivial Travails” and as the TAPIR, a pig with a wiggly proboscis joins the fray, INIGO and TYNAN dive in to prevent the EAGLES “Swoop” from pursuing the SATINDOLL and a free-for-all is in the offing since the structured game WENTTOPOT.

    Actually, this is a rather tame effort from Gary Cee, as his theme entries, looking for words joined by “in”, such as HAT “in” HAND or LIE “in” WAIT are hinted at by their clue and without exception are easily filled “in”.

    A nice bit of fun in the puzzle comes from the clue “Sand in an hourglass, for time” that is cunningly clever as it looks for METAPHOR while right next door we have DECEIT clued as “Smoke and mirrors, say”, a METAPHOR if I’ve ever seen one. Cute, Gary.

    One of the puzzles debut entries, ISURRENDER for “Uncle!” is an answer only Henry Kissinger might think of as a diplomat’s acceptable counter to “I quit, I quit, so stop it you reprehensible pond scum!”, (at least it wasn’t NO MAS).

    Best clue goes to “Doesn’t merely cut” that first gives visions of ATLI being outrageously Hunnish, waving a Scythian axe, until Gary Cee cleverly steers us to a beauty salon where a gentler soul STYLES the hair, too.

    Thanks, Gary, sorry that you have to follow the liveliness that was yesterday, (but, tell us, how did HANDEL end up in your motley crew)?.

    Gareth Bain 8:50 AM  

    I remember TYCO for their knock-off lego...

    ArtO 9:17 AM  

    Might as well join in the chorus with RUBON/TOTI. Just a plethora of crosswordese as noted.

    Tynan has the best rendition of "God Bless America" since Kate Smith. Maybe even better!

    joho 9:18 AM  

    Yay, I guessed right with TITI!

    I thought this a very clever theme with the phrases forming crosses. It's always interesting to me that themes like this which are not straightforward almost always irk @Rex because they slow him down. But, he did appreciate this puzzle as well he should!

    @chefwen & @Milford, I, too, love BEST IN SHOW!

    Gary Cee. thanks! In the end I didn't shout, "ISURRENDER!" but was able to REJOICE in your fun creation!

    chefbea 9:41 AM  

    Did not care for the puzzle. DNF. Lots I did not know.

    Logy??? How do you pronounce it ?? Soft G? Hard G?

    And why are smoke and mirrors deceit??

    Bob Kerfuffle 9:57 AM  

    I enjoyed the puzzle, but thought it would draw fire as more difficult than usual.

    As one who finished on the wrong side of RUB IN/RUB ON, I would ask:

    How often has TITI appeared in Times' puzzles? I would swear I have missed every one of them; the word is new to me (which is fine.)

    Wikipedia the Magnificent 9:59 AM  

    Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians' illusions, where magicians make objects appear or disappear by extending or retracting mirrors amid a distracting burst of smoke. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception.

    John V 10:05 AM  

    @bob k Titi has appeared 9 times in the Times, but not since 2009.

    Airymom 10:09 AM  

    I don't care if it's found at dictionary.com..."logy" is just not a word. Other than that, good puzzle.

    "Satin Doll" was the first song my husband played for me on classical guitar. (He was a musician and guitar teacher.) We had been dating about a month and he was trying to "impress me". Note to teenage boys...you are right--playing guitar = chick magnet!

    Lewis 10:19 AM  

    My crunch areas were TITI/RUBIN and INIGO next to TYNAN. I liked the theme because at least you didn't have to look far away in the puzzle for the words that related to each other. I was thinking of a social type club rather than a golf club, so that was a good misdirect for me.

    I kind of like BEST in SCHLEP and ZEE in SNOOZE.

    diywriter 10:29 AM  

    Is ENO crosswordese? Depends on your definition. If you mean something like "a word that often appears in crosswords and is useful to constructors because it uses common letters," then yes. But if you mean "a word that is unimportant and useful only for solving crosswords," then I say No. If you're interested in contemporary pop/rock/other music, Brian Eno is well worth knowing. Check out the Wiki article.

    Kim 10:31 AM  

    One more check in the RUBON/TOTI column.

    We're going to CHOW to EXCESS on CREOLE tonight.

    @Rex...I was hoping for a Best in Show clip.

    mac 10:37 AM  

    I thought it was a cute theme, cute puzzle, until I got bogged down in the South. Donah and Logy, and my zed made that part near impossible.

    Tyco sounds familiar as a toy brand, but with model trains I only know Maerklin and Lionel. I learned something

    Brood was great, and plenty of other pretty words. Poor old Edsel.

    DBGeezer 10:40 AM  

    I'm startled that neither Rex nor any commentators mentioned the one way rebuses for 8D and 47 A

    Namely ELEC(TED) crossing TAPIR, and
    SELEC(TED) crossing TOSSES

    chefbea 10:43 AM  

    @Wiki the magnificent...thanx

    Gill I. P. 10:44 AM  

    Well, heavy on the proper nouns again but if you're gonna start your crossword with WHO dat, chances are I'm going to like it. And I did....
    My favorites: YODA/TACO, TWOBALL/TITI, REJOICE/LENNY and INIGO/NINEIRON.
    @chefwen can I join @Milford?

    Anonymous 10:47 AM  

    Strictly speaking, we think that there are only six theme answers, but you added two more--taco in yoda and snooze in excess. Excess crosses snooze at the e whereas all the other ones cross each other in the middle.

    Anonymous 10:50 AM  

    Strictly speaking, we think that there are only six theme answers, but you added two more--taco in yoda and snooze in excess. Excess crosses snooze at the e whereas all the other ones cross each other in the middle.

    Anonymous 10:50 AM  

    Sand in an hourglass is a metaphor for time? Are the hands of a clock also a metaphor for time? Are the graduations on a ruler a metaphor for length?

    Keith H 11:01 AM  

    @anon 10:50

    "Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives."

    Here you go.

    Ellen S 11:02 AM  

    Hand up for ToTI/RUBoN. Good to know I'm not alone. I enjoyed it, themes, fill and all.

    Missed yesterday altogether, dang! I finished the puzzle before Rex posted his review and never had a cha ce to go back and read it or the comments. Maybe I'm better off this way.

    I never could do cryptics. Just can't wrap my head around the cluing style, even though I love puns etc in the regular puzzles. I rely too much on crosses to help me out, and, yes, the cryptics have lots of unchecked squares. They just leave me stranded, or ENISLED (boy, does that ever look like a non-word!) as they say in the Crossworld.

    quilter1 11:09 AM  

    Easy for me. I actually say TAKE in VAIN fairly frequently as a joking way of saying "I was talking about you the other day." So, no problem with that. FERVENT was my last entry. I liked it.

    Anonymous 11:12 AM  

    That is a simile, not a metaphor. And it's not for time.

    jae 11:17 AM  

    @lms -- Yes HANDL was my first thought but I'm slowly learning. I also have trouble with the collision of consonants in LIZST's name.

    DigitalDan 11:24 AM  

    I do not TAKE IN VAIN my oath to enjoy them all.

    Mr. Benson 11:49 AM  

    I've been alive for 42 years and speaking English for, say, 40 to 41 years, and I'm telling you right now that LOGY is not a word and no dictionary can tell me otherwise.

    I did correctly guess TITI (insert Beavis laugh) but I acknowledge it could just as easily have been TOTI as far as I knew.

    Overall I found this one to be an unpleasant slog. That whole LOGY/ DONAT area was ugly and the theme was tedious with little payoff.

    bigsteve46 11:51 AM  

    In my opinion the side-by-side of TYNAN and INIGO is bad xword construction. Two obscure 5-letter proper names should not be right next to another. That is the real Natick.

    Benko 11:59 AM  

    @Chefbea and others--LOGY is pronounced with a long "o" and a hard "g". I've heard it said many times but always assumed it was spelled "loagy" for some reason, maybe an association with loafing.
    Brian ENO, besides his many collaborations and productions, has a few other things to his credit...he was a founding member of Roxy Music. His Music for Airports helped create the idea of ambient music (though its roots go back to Satie). He had a run of great solo albums in the 70s. He co-created a set of cards which are meant to be read when one is stuck in creating art. He helped introduce to the UK and US some important experimental music from Germany and elsewhere...oh yeah, and he made the Windows noise.

    quilter1 12:05 PM  

    I have also used the word LOGY out loud more than once.

    Rob C 12:06 PM  

    Average difficulty for a Wed. When I initially saw all of the cross-references I thought this would be a slog, but not so. Since they all crossed each other it wasn't so bad. All in all, it was very enjoyable.

    On the metaphor discussion, I got this definition from M-W:
    a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money).

    I tried for MEasure off of the ME, figuring that sand in an hourglass is used to measure time. Didn't fit. When I finally got METAPHOR I didn't think it made sense either. The sand is actually used to measure time, not merely to suggest an analogy. So I'm not quite buying that it's a metaphor, however, I can see the opposite side of the argument also.

    Now when Al Bundy saw a woman and and pictured rocket ship launching and a train going through a tunnel, those were clear metaphors.

    Keith H 12:12 PM  

    @anon

    Similes are a class of metaphors, and days are units of time.

    See for example "METAPHOR ... (1) All figures of speech that achieve their effect through association, comparison, and resemblance. Figures like antithesis, hyperbole, metonymy, simile are all species of metaphor." in "The Oxford Companion to the English Language (1992) p.653"

    Notsofast 12:29 PM  

    George of the Jungle used to SCHLEP away on his elephant, Shep. And "WHO DAT?" was said on some old TV show, since banned. I heard some old man say LOGY once about forty years ago. And the only ATLI I ever heard of was Clement. An interesting, if not well-polished Wednesday.

    Eric 12:56 PM  

    lol @ taco in yoda

    loren muse smith 12:57 PM  

    @sanfranman59 and anyone else who's into music, George Barany has a good puzzle you should take a look at here

    Masked and Anonymo3Us 1:10 PM  

    Challenging theme. Had to reteach it to self, eight times, as things progressed. Different. thUmbsUp.

    Corner of Hope: NE. Two vowels of the U persuasion.

    Corner of Nope: Middle East. INIGO-TYNON tagteam pinned me down. Also, still scratchin head over clue for DIN. See below.

    Things that I associate with the clue "Emanation from Babel"...
    * Skyscrapers.
    * Brad Pitt.
    * Everyone using the same language, to get things done. I believe they called it "crosswordese".
    * Divine intervention.
    * No one being able to understand anyone else, after divine intervention. Kinda like a session of Congress.
    * Unfinished projects. Congress, again.
    * Origin of multiple lingos. Hence all that French in the Ny Times puz, along with the regular

    DIN? Dim. I reckon you hafta harken back to the Congress metaphor? Liked TITI. Learned somethin new.

    Milford 1:12 PM  

    @r.alphbunker - one of my first thoughts with the second clue was that it related to music, with "measure" and an 8 count? Maybe the answer is TEMP-something? Just random thoughts. I didn't think about the 8 referring to another clue in the puzzle.

    I don't do cryptics, either, so ignore me too if needed :)

    M and A afterthought 1:15 PM  

    p.s. ...along with regular crosswordese. Got distracted by the dang biting budgie, and left off the last word there.

    Sandy K 1:23 PM  

    "In"itially thought I would get a headache from this one due to the cross-referencing, but I liked it.

    @Keith H- Thanks for the Days of Our Lives reference. That was the one that kept running thru my mind for METAPHOR.

    @Carola- was going to @ you yesterday, but felt I was over-doing the @-ing... I was in the NO Simpsons group yesterday, and I can do the NYT cryptic- but NOT the WSJ or the British one! Cannot figure those out...I think there's a language/idiom barrier- that's my excuse.

    @Syndy- very apt description of Ronan TYNAN. He was selling his cd on QVC one day, and making a move on the attractive show host- cringing ensued.

    I'm wondering if there are any "Game of Thrones" fans here. No SNOOZE there either..

    jberg 1:53 PM  

    I liked it -- despite TYCO, an unpleasant reminder of the money I lost when Tyco Industries turned out to be run by fraudsters (one of whom used company funds to buy an original Rubens -- or is that RUBINs? -- to hang in his house).

    If you look way back to @Sarah 12:13 AM, she's ironically pointing out that RUB IN is the revealer. I'm guessing Will changed the cluing on the theme entries by adding "With 'in,'" presumably to make them easy enough for a Wednesday. (Well, actually adding "'in' and"). For example, if 14A read "With 2-Down, respectful humility" you would have to RUB an IN into the phrase for it to make sense.

    But I didn't get it, had RUB oN there just like all the other non-monkey-experts.

    All you LOGY haters are just too young; I'm 69, and have seen the word a fair amount. Always thought it was a soft G, but I seem to have been saying it wrong all these years.

    I knew ATLI only from seeing Benjamin Bagby perform that edda -- I don't want to spoil the plot, but it's gruesome.

    Bird 2:51 PM  

    Meh. First thought was, “not another cross-referencing puzzle”. Second thought was, OK, not too bad”. Liked TWO BALL and NINE IRON. Didn’t like RUB IN crossing TITI as others have said it could’ve gone either way. LOGY doesn’t look like a real word, but I’m no expert like Will. VOA? Oh, Voice of America. Duh.

    Write-overs:
    NAME before TAKE
    XER before GAP
    SHREDS before STYLES

    SNOOZE in EXCESS – LOL
    "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." Love that movie.

    With the exception of the Acrostic, I like the variety puzzles in the NYT magazine. I usually do those first then tackle the standard Sunday edition.

    Ronan TYNAN is a physician who happens to be a very talented tenor who used to perform “God Bless America” during the 7th Inning Stretch at Yankee Stadium after 9/11. His controversial comment about a prospective apartment renter led to the Yankees canceling his engagement.

    Happy Humpday!

    Sfingi 3:16 PM  

    Got hung up with ZEd instead of ZEE.

    Otherwise, definitely different. Kept thinking of others as Rex did.

    Outlier seems to be the word of the month.
    Is it an outlier, or an out-and-out liar?

    INIGO Jones is someone to know (of). He's what they had for big buildings before Sullivan in Chicago and steel construction.

    99 Per Cent Wrong 3:40 PM  

    @Bird: Thanx. Knew I'd heard that INIGO name somewhere. Great flick. Near perfect. Swamp rats that the actors had to struggle to animate themselves were superb. Also the logic of the two poisoned goblets was a highlight. But I digress.
    As.
    You.
    Wish.

    Oh, man. It's TYNAN with an A? Swamp rats. Wrong again, M&A breath.

    Just finished mowin de lawnscape. Hope it looks pretty, cuz I sure don't.

    Anonymous 3:59 PM  

    62-Across and 55-Down an outlier? "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" used to be in nearly everybody's vocabulary, whether one was or was not a believer. Isn't it part of a literary heritage at least?

    Pete 4:47 PM  

    @Anon 3:59 - Just look at your citation - You had 7 words between 'TAKE' and "IN VAIN". All the others stood alone: He stood there HAT IN HAND. My dog won BEST IN SHOW....

    You can't say TAKE IN VAIN without putting something identifying what is being taken in vain. It isn't a stand-alone phrase.

    Rex shouldn't have to explain everything.

    Stating the obvious? 4:51 PM  

    @anonymice- HAT IN HAND, JUST IN CASE, and LIE IN WAIT are stand alone phrases, they need no additional words to make them complete. NAME IN VAIN needs help to be complete, as your posts show. This is why it is an outlier, not the biblical source.

    Pete 5:05 PM  

    @Anon 3:59 - I apologize for the rude portion of my answer.

    sanfranman59 5:27 PM  

    Midday report of relative difficulty (see my 8/1/2009 post for an explanation of my method and my 10/15/2012 post for an explanation of a tweak to my method):

    All solvers (median solve time, average for day of week, ratio, percentile, rating)

    Wed 12:12, 10:00, 1.22, 91%, Challenging

    Thanks for the puzzle referral Loren. Fun.

    Top 100 solvers

    Wed 7:38, 5:49, 1.31, 97%, Challenging

    Nigel 5:58 PM  

    There is a town in Newfoundland called Logy Bay (yes, pronounced lowgie (hard g) and the word is in common use there - someone who feels logy is dragging and tired. Maybe the problem folks have is that the word is really an "English" word instead of an American one. It has probably been in use in Newfoundland since the place was first overrun with the English back in the 1500's. And I smiled at those who though 64D might be ZED - this is an American puzzle and unless the clue says so I know to spell it incorrectly as ZEE (because I am both a proud Canadian and a proud Newfoundlander).

    okanaganer 6:26 PM  

    Standard substitutions Canadians must make for the NYT puzzle:
    "Canadian gas" = ESSO not PETROCAN.
    "Last of 26" = ZEE not ZED.
    "Numbered I.D." = SSN not SIN.
    "Retirement fund" = IRA not RRSP.
    ...etc, etc.

    Gareth Bain 6:34 PM  

    @okanaganer: That's nothing... "Spring mo." I put in SEP, E.V.E.R.Y. T.I.M.E. (You'd think I'd have learned by now...)

    Gareth Bain 6:35 PM  

    (and I had ZED before ZEE too. Sigh.)

    Thoracic 6:47 PM  

    Nigel-- I too am a proud Newfoundlander (CFA but here long enough I think). You beat me to the Logy Bay geography lesson!

    Davis 7:00 PM  

    Re: the LOGY discussion--fans of classic Simpsons episodes might recall this one:

    Lisa: Mom, Bart is on a diet of complex carbohydrates. Steak will make him logy.

    Marge: What won't make him logy?

    Lisa: Oatmeal.

    Marge: Oatmeal?

    Lisa: A racehorse eats oats before he or she wins the Kentucky Derby.

    Homer: News flash, Lisa. Bart is not a horse. Eat your steak, boy.

    Tita 8:07 PM  

    @R.alph - I like the phrase "in the wild"...

    Agree that STYLES was great.

    @lms - thx for pointing out the symmetry,

    I liked WENTOPOT and FERVENT.

    INIGO and TYNAN were just mean. Never heard of LOGY

    Shour out to me, as my nieces sometimes call me TITI. (Diminutive of Tita, which is a childish attempt at Tia Tereza).

    Welcome to the new folks.

    Thanks to Mr. Cee - I really really liked the idea - it was a game within a puzzle, and I was able to figger 'em all out.

    Oh - and in the software business, we use "smoke and mirrors" all the time - it's not DECEIT!! It's just a vision of the ideal... ;)

    chefwen 8:24 PM  

    #Milford @Gil I.P. - Hop on over, there's plenty of room.

    chefwen 8:25 PM  

    Oops, make that @Milford not #Milford, that would rude!

    LaneB 9:56 PM  

    Late start but finished nary a Google. One error: ad RUBON, not RUBIN, making the monkey a TOTI not a TITI.. Could have Googled TOTI but resisted. An excellent Wednesday! Is to give moral guidance to EDIFY? Never
    Heard the word so used.

    JIMMY SCHMIDT 10:11 PM  

    I also fell victim to RUBoN/ ToTI.

    An obscure primate just isn't enough to distinguish between RUBON and RUBIN, which would both satisfy that clue.

    RUBIN should have been clued as "Flaunt repeatedly to an opponent, as in a victory" or something similar.

    Otherwise, not a bad puzzle.

    JIMMY SCHMIDT 10:13 PM  

    Just realized that RUBIN could be clued as Robert Rubin, the Treasury guy also... Would have brought this puzzle up one letter grade in my eyes.

    Anonymous 10:26 PM  

    Keith H

    I have to disagree with you on this one. Sand in an hourglass is a symbol for time and yes it was used as a bad simile for the passage of the days of our lives, but it is not a metaphor for time... at least not a good one.

    Here are some metaphors for time:
    Time is a river.
    Time is money.
    Time is a prison.

    You would fail English 101 if you wrote time is sand in an hourglass.

    Wikipedia 10:42 PM  

    A visual METAPHOR or a METAPHOR used in graphical user interfaces, but definitely a metaphor, even in English 101.

    sanfranman59 11:22 PM  

    This week's relative difficulty ratings. See my 8/1/2009 post for an explanation and my 10/15/2012 post for an explanation of a tweak I've made to my method. In a nutshell, the higher the ratio, the higher this week's median solve time is relative to the average for the corresponding day of the week.

    All solvers (this week's median solve time, average for day of week, ratio, percentile, rating)

    Mon 6:00, 6:12, 0.97, 33%, Easy-Medium
    Tue 8:36, 8:09, 1.05, 67%, Medium-Challenging
    Wed 12:00, 10:00, 1.20, 88%, Challenging

    Top 100 solvers

    Mon 3:50, 3:49, 1.01, 50%, Medium
    Tue 5:10, 4:52, 1.06, 66%, Medium-Challenging
    Wed 7:11, 5:49, 1.23, 93%, Challenging

    Anonymous 12:25 AM  

    Symbol, not metaphor

    alsoCanuck 1:12 PM  

    @Nigel @Gareth Bain @okanager - Also: GRAY, not GREY; and every OR word, not OUR, as in HONOUR, NEIGHBOUR. Ah, such travails!

    Keith H 9:47 PM  
    This comment has been removed by the author.
    Keith H 9:56 PM  

    Good, so we agree that it is a metaphor, because as you admitted at 11:12am, it is a simile.

    Whether it is a good metaphor doesn't seem relevant to this board. If the clue were "Ben Affleck movie" and the answer were GIGLI, would you have complained?

    spacecraft 10:58 AM  

    Seems to me that if so many good solvers get tripped up on the T_TI/RUB_N natick--and count me among those--that's a severe defect of construction and should really have been fixed--or edited, Will!

    However, any grid that contains my beloved E! A! G! L! E! S! EAGLES! is bound to get a FERVENT thumbs-up from me. That plus: incredibly, I never knew the mascot's name! So thank you, Gary, for Swoop!

    "Like sand in the hourglass, these are the Days of our Lives." That, folks, is a simile (note the presence of the word "like"). If you simply CALL something something else, e.g. "Hourglass sand is time," that's a metaphor--and I agree, a pretty poor one. In sum: "like" or "as" = simile; "is" = metaphor.

    You really should see the ridiculous picture of this captcha house address. You would not believe it. Ladies and gentlemen, I have found the worst photographer in the world! And the "artist" who strung out these letters has GOT to be on PCP. Geez, guys, have half a heart!

    rain forest 11:55 AM  

    This was actually a pretty easy puzzle, and quite enjoyable to solve, but is rated "challenging" because sorting out the 6 phrases took some time, which speed solvers don't like. Pity them.

    That said, I made the RUBON/TOTI error as well. A TOTI sounds like a perfectly good monkey to me. TITI is too suggestive...

    DMGrandma 1:36 PM  

    Anther ToTI monkey here! But, I have seen TITI before, and should have remembered it. My usual spelling jinx left me with architect INaGO. Thus I came here to be enlightened as to which DaN came form the Tower! Maybe next time I'll remember it's "i" not "a".

    As a general comment, I really dislike cross referenced clues that send one hither and thither. As a result, I tend to ignore them when solving. In this case, they weren't necessary, but I obviously missed some of the fun!

    @Ginger: Just about given up on Wimbleton- it gets stranger and stranger. Lisicki seems a force for the future. Next week?

    Ginger 2:09 PM  

    @syndy Thank you for the Ronan TYNAN link, wonderful!

    @Rex -thanks for the Ellington Satin Doll clip, love it.

    LOGY seems very much in the language to me. Perhaps it's regional? BTW it's a hard G.

    TITI/RUBIN, Got lucky and guessed right.

    @DMG - Re Wimbledon, You got that right. Stranger and Stranger. I was impressed by the Lisicki interview during the rain delay. She's articulate and funny, and English is not her mother tongue. All my favorites are gone, but so are some on my love to hate list.

    Really enjoyed this, maybe because since I finished with no writeovers it seemed easy.

    Dirigonzo 5:02 PM  

    Once I figured out the "in" went in the middle of the phrase and not in front, I had a lot of fun trying to guess the theme answers with no crosses and I got most of them right. Chick before BROOD, and it took too long for SliceS to become STYLES, which gets my vote for most clever clue. And of course, RUBoN.

    timothy griffin 6:44 AM  

    I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SOLVE TIME STATISTICS.
    Is that 6 minutes aveage? I've never finished a ny times under an hour. I've never completed one without help. I usually know between 5 and 10 clues off the bat. I pick up a few more after googling. Then google a few more till completion.

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